>> JENNIFER- HOST: I'm going to go ahead and shift us over and start our recording.

And introduce my colleague Brooke Doyle, who is the project coordinator at WebJunction, I'm going to let Brooke get us started and introduce the rest of those gathered today.

>> BROOKE DOYLE: Thank you so much, Jennifer, I'm Brooke Doyle, WebJunction project coordinator, and I'm joined by Betha Gutsche, who will be moderating our discussion today.

We're glad you joined us to continue the conversation about libraries and evictions.

We know some of you attended our webinar in November, or watched the recording.

Some of you might have joined us in December, and we hope those were useful sessions.

But we know they problem hi generated questions.

There's a lot of confusion around evictions, it's a complex topic, and we're hoping to address some of those today.

If you have not watched the webinar, I urge you to do that.

And Jennifer is going to put that link in the chat.

Jennifer, I'm not seeing the ability to advance.

>> JOE SCHOTTENFELD: I have given you --

>> JENNIFER PETERSON: I have given you --

>> BROOKE DOYLE: There we go.

Sorry.

Okay.

I'm pleased to have our guests today, I'll let them introduce themselves.

>> LEE PATTERSON: I'm Lee Patterson, the library social work director at Rebecca Antill, located in Columbia, South Carolina.

>> DEB HAMILTON: My name is Deb Hamilton, the strategic services high Brierean who works with the law and legal research division.

>> I'm a project coordinator and analyst at the legal coordinator -- I work on an eviction study with Ranya Ahmed, and the purpose of this study is to investigate the unmet legal needs surrounding eviction in the United States.

>> JOE SCHOTTENFELD: My name is Joe Schottenfeld, and I am assistant general counsel at the NAACP, where one of my roles is to help run and stand up our NAACP navigator program, which helps folks who have unmet legal need and connects them to resources.

>> RANYA AHMED: My name is Ranya Ahmed, I work for the Legal Services Corporation, and I work on a congressionally funded set -- directed study on eviction.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Super, thank you, everyone.

I'm just really so happy to have such a great group of brains in this room.

I'm going to -- here's our agenda.

I'm going to do a quick overview, I'm going to keep it really high level and encourage you to watch the webinar.

We're going to let Joe and Lee talk about their partnership from the library side, and from the community partner side.

>> BROOKE DOYLE: And for about 20 minutes, then we'll open it up for questions.

Feel free to start typing your questions in the chat as they come to mind, and we will, depending on the question we'll answer it in different ways.

We might answer in the chat, we might save it for later, we might do a little bit of both.

Please don't be shy about your questions.

I want to make sure that you are aware of this great resource page we have come up with at WebJunction.

It was published in November, and I hope you will bookmark it.

We're going to continue to add to it.

All the resources mentioned today will be on it, all the past recordings are on it, I think it's really supposed to be one-stop shopping, so I encourage you to spend some time digging into those resources.

If you are new to legal reference at the library, I'm going to point you to our series of four free self-paced courses, Creating Pathways to Civil Legal Justice.

It builds on the reference skills that you probably already have, and adds that legal dimension to it.

So they're really great foundation to this work.

So if either of those are new to you, please dig into those.

I am going to do a really high-level on the phases of eviction.

This graphic outlines those key phases.

I want to really emphasize that eviction is determined by the state, county, and local laws.

So the steps that follow might really vary drastically depending on your jurisdiction.

The specific actions taken by tenants and landlords during each stage are critical in determining the final outcome.

Failure in any of these areas can mean the difference between winning and losing a case.

So what the phases look like is really important information to your patrons.

So that first phase is that initiation of eviction, when a tenant -- a landlord gives the tenant notice of intent to file.

And there will be a time period associated with that, and there will be some actions that could be taken, potentially to stop the eviction.

That time period passes and you're into phase two when the filing actually happens.

So the landlord files the eviction with the courts.

And then a hearing date is set, phase three, where the case will come before a judge, the judge will make a ruling in that phase four, and then potentially eviction happens depending on the ruling.

And there is an ability to appeal in some cases.

So again, a lot of local variation, but that's the very quick and dirty version of the phases, and I encourage you to spend time on that resource page looking at the documents that detail that a little bit more.

I want to spend kind of emphasize the importance of prevention, so helping in those early faces is even -- is so critical.
 in stopping evictions from happening.

We'll be hearing a lot about ERAP today, the Emergency Rental Assistance Program, a federal program put in place to help citizens both landlords and tenants who are struggling with paying rent.

And helping patrons -- and helping patrons access these funds is a great way the library can may a role in this.

I will say that any information you can get in advance of eviction, like tenants' rights information before this is even happening, or ideally before it's even on the hordes, is a great role for a library as well.

I will say that funds are still available in the ERAP program.

You might have heard about places where they have run out.

It will depend on where you live.

A few programs have stopped taking applications for the moment, but they may reopen later for more -- if they get more funds.

And a reallocation for more funding for ERAP is in the next budget, and that negotiation is happening.

To see where it will end up in the next budget.

So Jennifer is putting a link in the chat.

We recommend that people at least check to see if your state or locality is currently taking applications through that tool.

And some programs that have closed, do have information on their websites about other places that renters can go to find help in their area.

So I am going to now turn it over to Lee and Joe and let them share their story about their partnership.

>> JOE SCHOTTENFELD: Thank you so much.

It is really great to be here with all of you today.

I'm going to just provide a brief overview of the navigator program that I mentioned earlier, because I think it's a useful frame for many of you who are thinking about unOrthodox partnerships or in particular, ways you can be involved that don't necessarily reflect formal structures or becoming of housing counselor.

And then I'll just describe briefly how Lee and I got linked up and pass it to her to describe the extraordinary work that the Richland County Library social work department does as an unbelievably robust model of where things can go as well.

But the navigator program, where we're involved with the NAACP, started last February.

And it was an effort to meet housing needs and it did do so by channeling community responses and members, and in many ways to capitalize on what we think of as informal navigators, community members who are already having individuals facing housing instability, who have legal needs come to them and ask them for assistance.

We just wanted to provide them with more infrastructure and try to use that to help link people up with the services they need and the assistance they need.

So would you mind going to the next slide?

Great.

So I think as prook was getting at, what we saw was both a mixture of legal and nonlegal needs.

Legal needs in the sense of people were hurdling through eviction processes without getting the support or assistance they need, either through the form of a lawyer or the basic legal understanding of the practices that are going to affect their rights.

Nonlegal, in the sense that a lot of what we were obviously working on or worried about were fundamentally economic issues and economic injustices.

So the fact people were behind on rent and had outstanding payments that they had to pay for.

And -- beneath both of those is the fact that most people didn't know where to turn.

We obviously know, many of us on the call should know there's legal services and almost all locations that exist to provide people with legal assistance, many people who are facing eviction don't know that legal services exist, or don't know that legal services could serve as a resource for that.

Same thing too of all the financial assistance providers that exist.

Brooke mentioned ERAP, but there are all these other more local versions, United Way or additional providers that can help keep people in their homes by assisting them with critical financial aid at a crucial juncture.

But again, it's a myriad of varied infrastructure and people often don't know where to turn.

What they do know is that they trust certain people.

If someone is in the addiction process they'll reach out to help for an informal navigator or someone they trust, this can look like a community healthcare provider, a church or faith leader, high Brierean, obviously, friends, members of their community.

So the navigator program looked to both respond to that problem, the fact that people at this unbelievably important juncture, verge of eviction, behind on rent, under anxiety and stress, don't know where to turn by linking them up with community members who can serve as a coordinated access point, and be able to Henriage the issues and provide them with information and assistance linking them up to the types of services that might redress the problems.

Just to provide a brief snapshot of the navigator program, we launched in February, we've had over 200 clients who have passed through, and I think we've probably helped Rasmussen Poly 200 housing insecure individuals.

We've done sow primarily through the assistance of what are now more than 60 housing navigators.

It's not our lawyers, it's trained community volunteers who are serving as navigators to work with tenants by linking them up to all forms of nonlegal assistance, be it state or federal benefits they might qual for, the ERAP program, and also legal services as well to make sure people have the assistance they need and the information that can help them stay in their homes.

We're doing so with an array of partnerships.

I'll talk in a bit about our partnership with Lee at the library, which has been unbelievable.

We're also partnered with South Carolina Legal Services and other programs to try to help redress the issues that people are facing.

So one thing to think about here is what are the interventions we're trying to steer people towards and how are we trying to help them?

Because I think a lot of you may have questions about what can I do to help.

I think the navigator program is one example of a variety of different ways you can have a meaningful intervention without necessarily being a lawyer or trained housing counselor.

That can still provide enormously valuable information and assistance to people.

We're really trying to pick up on some of the best practices of existing programs and morph them on to our community-based approach.

On the one hand we have a huge amount of opaque legal processes people are winding through, breaking down eviction process, there are all these different junctures, people need that legal information and they often benefit tremendously from legal representation, but sometimes in order to have an opportunity, they need to understand the process themselves.

So the example that I would give is in South Carolina, if you're a tenant facing eviction, you actually have to request a hearing, otherwise you'll be evicted and you have 10 days to do so.

And what this means is that if you don't actually request that hearing, you're never going to get a chance to present your case, your eviction is going to move much faster and time can be critical for people than it otherwise would.

So with the navigator program, we don't represent individuals, we don't provide them with legal counsel, but we do provide them with legal information.

So all of our navigators, if they have someone who has received an eviction action will tell them how the system works.

That same information Brooke put up, they'll tailor it to the local system, in Richland County, to make it so people have the best chance they can to request a hearing, slow down the process.

In this we're borrowing from other navigator programs that exist.

New York City-based programs, for example, that actual hi have in-court navigators who will walk people through the process, provide them basic information, even give them physical directions so they have the best chance of presenting their defense and feeling like they're being heard in that process, and achieve the outcome they might want.

The other aspect that goes beyond the courtroom is the one Brooke was talking about in terms of trying to reach us early in the process.

Here we're drawing just again from informal navigators, like social workers, or librarians, other service providers where people turn to you to reach out for help, and the sooner they do, often relying as much as they can on the trust they have in you, the more opportunities you have to help them through not just legal means, but also through nonlegal assistance by steering them towards financial resources.

So if you can issue a spot for them at that early stage, there's this whole panoply of options that are available to try to help them.

What this is just sort of -- I'll put the link in the chat once I'm done talking.

I know the folks would have sent it out earlier.

This is our housing navigator handbook.

It represents our best assets to asset map, to look at the ecosystem of resources available, legal services, try to put it in one place so a navigator who is operating and working with a client can tap into it, look through it, search through it to try to find all of the different services that might be beneficial to someone.

And I'm sure Lee has her own version as well, what this tries to do is put at people's fingertips the types of information that can empower people and give them the support they need.

So it's not just someone trying to remember, I know there's SNAP benefits but I don't know what the eligibility requirements are.

I know the ERAP program requires this form of paperwork, but I don't know what that paperwork would look like.

But while this is our version of it, there are so many different iterations of this, of asset mapping that can be really meaningful.

And you can simplify it down.

One of the things we found to be the most beneficial to tenants right now as Brooke was mentioned was just trying to figure out how to sign up for ERAP.

It just meant providing them with a list of the types of documents they were going to need and trying to help them go through that process in a way they have the best chance of signing up for ERAP and receiving ERAP assistance.

And I think that's something Lee can talk about, because they've been doing an unbelievable job.

As a pivot to Lee, our collaboration, our partnership developed in some ways from this asset mapping, and from just the efforts of it being a community provider, trying to reach out to other organizations in the community, and I think it's one hopefully that can help provide hope to librarians who are often in areas that are underserved or don't necessarily have a robust ecosystem of additional service providers.

So we actually got linked up with Lee because we were advertising through the NAACP branch for all members, recruiting for navigators, and Lee showed up as a social worker to try to see what we were all about, and volunteer as a navigator.

Obviously we quickly realized we had quite a bit to learn from Lee, because she's a trained social worker, whereas we are providing social services as lawyers, as trainers, but not with nearly the same amount of ground work in terms of understanding how to actually help the clients.

So since then the library has done a terrific job of providing additional support to the navigator program and then also proving to be just an unbelievably important caption window actor in terms of linking tenants up to the assistance they need.

So with that, Lee, I feel like I should probably pass it to you, given that everything you do is worth talking about.

>> LEE PATTERSON: Thank you, that was very generous.

As I mentioned before, I am Lee Patterson, I'm the director of social work at Rebecca Antill.

So I will go ahead -- ril.

I will preface this knowing not every library has social workers so I'll talk about what we do and how that might be able to mimic to other locations where staff is a little bit thin, maybe in areas where you're looking at specifically social services.

So as Joe mentioned, they advertise for a housing navigator program, in which they were going to use free community volunteers to help individuals, but the housing -- with housing questions and eviction questions.

Because I'm incredibly nosy, I was like, I want to go.

And I went and got to meet Joe, and realized the amazing program they have, one of the things about our program at richland Library is we try to make a low-barrier programs so individuals can talk to us without having being residents of our county, without having income qualifications, the whole thing, so you will find at other social service type agencies.

So being able to see Joe's program that mimics that, how to make the community members the experts in this area was super fascinating.

So we wanted to have a part, and then my whole team became navigators and got involved in the ERAP process, but we still are very much in touch with them and talk to them, and see daily, like yesterday, so one of the things that I think has been really beneficial is that Joe and his team have been great to train us on eviction processes, the right things, what can the clients do, what do the landlords need to do, because we get questions from tenants and from landlords, which you all probably do as well.

And also want to bring to light the fact that Joe is in a different state than I am in.

And so when you're looking at creating partnerships like these, in which you're able to help the customers that are coming to your location, you can look at those who are in your community who are doing this kind of work already, considering shelters, your county government, your united ways, but also finding partners who are open and willing who don't live in your area, you may have the local community-based expertise and the face your customers can put a face to, but having someone else who is really knowledgeable and may have a little bit more bandwidth that's farther away.

What we've been able to do over the past few months is answer questions and so when people are calling asking about eviction, when they have paperwork they want to bring in, saying my landlord gave me this, what does this mean, that's what we've been doing since our program started in 2013, trying to help our clients decipher notices and things they get in the mail.

But when they're bringing it to us and they say how do I -- what does this mean, what am I rights, what can I do?

Or who has money?

Or as the application process started with the emergency rental assistance, how do I apply?

Where do I go?

What documents do I need?

Why do I need that document?

So really working with our county government to really understand what documents the client needed and to ask them the questions they haven't thought about, because y'all, we work directly with the public on a daily basis.

Sometimes those in county government, making those decisions, they're asking for attestation about how you were laid off, and most of our clients don't have that.

They walked to work ask there was a paper on the door.

They didn't take a picture of that.

They don't know the optioning there.

So being able to advocate on their behalf as well as saying, what other options do we have, most clients are not going to have something in writing saying they couldn't go to work for however many months.

Being able to work with them, and translate that to the customer or the client, that's the language we use.

And so a lot of it is learning this legal language, or learning the words professionals like to use, and translating that into something that conclude understood by the person who is literally at crisis.

They don't have time, they don't care about all these As and Bs and Cs, they just want the answer to their one question, and being able to provide additional resources.

The last thing I'll say, really one of the things we can that I think can be easily mimicked by other locations are creating documents.

So for Richland County specifically, we made a website, these are the documents you need to bring.

Many customers don't have access to the internet, and don't want to.

And being able to create a library, we made it for ourselves, but a library braided template saying these documents are what you need to bring.

It needs to be within this date, the date it started was August 3rd or whatever the date was, your most recent electricity bill.

That is not on the library site, but it's the most recent.

Not the one from April that was the highest, but the one that came today.

So just being able to translate that for your customers, and having that accessible in a way they can take home with them, because a lot of times they don't want to do it right there, they have kids to pick up, life.

And being able to answer those questions.

And the other thing we did was created a SharePoint site so I could share that information with other library locations.

So our social workers did the training that lasted two hours to learn the ins and outs of this program.

My other locations, we've got a system of 400 staff members, they can't all sit the two hours of training and don't want to, I don't blame them.

But we recorded it.

So I could also give you FAQs, which I would update very regularly, frequently asked questions.

What's the deadline, and how many -- does it it -- the whole lease or the first page?

Putting that accessible to the team members within the library so when they had a customer who came to their location to use their computers, they were able to go, okay, yes.

You need to have every single page of your lease, or I have no idea, but here's Lee's number, call her and ask her.

That kind of thing.

So being able to make it accessible for the whole team at their fingertips when they need it, because much like our customers, we can't read 20 pages of regs every day.

But being able to get that information out there as quickly possible.

I think that's it for us.

We've had a lot of fun, we've been able to assist more than 500 people in the last year, which has been significant for our team.

And as the state treasury, the U.S. treasury has just announced, reallocation, I'll put that link in the comments in case you haven't seen it yet, but you should know where your states and local governments are getting their funds coming very quickly, and we'll be busy again.

I think this webinar is very timely.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Thank you so much, Lee and Joe, for that stellar example of a partnership.

I'm going to encourage everyone to please, everyone who is here in the live audience to post any questions that come to mind in chat.

This is your opportunity to ask people who are very well informed and experienced with all this in real time now, so take advantage of that.

In the meantime, we did field a number of really good questions through the registration form.

So we'll start there.

I also want to mention that you can adjust your view here if you want to see everybody side by side, all of our videos, you would go to that layout button in the upper right corner and choose grid.

If you prefer to see the active person who is actively speaking, you can choose the stack layout.

We have a question from Deb.

One of our -- yay, thank you Deb.

Ask Lee and Joe to talk about how you recruited and trained navigators.

I'll have to say it struck me when you said navigators, are there to provide legal information, that is what library staff, that is their role to the community.

So there's a real parallel there.

So if you, both of you could respond to Deb's question?

>> LEE PATTERSON: Sure.

So we started --

>> JOE SCHOTTENFELD: We started with the NAACP branch in Columbia, South Carolina.

Which is where the program was launched out of.

I work for the NAACP so I'm biased, but I would highly recommend for all librarians out there, if you do have an knap branch, it's worth checking -- a a NAACP branch, they are worth checking in.

They vary, but in my experience they're often a source of tremendous grass-roots power and a desire to help their neighbors, their community members as much as possible.

So that was our first jumping-off point for recruitment of navigators, we reached out to all the members of the Columbia branch, there were 800 or so members there.

And then from there they completed the rest of the recruitment themselves.

We had navigators who were referring additional navigators, we had folks who were steering us toward other networks that was worth tapping into.

For example, they had a number of list serves and groups of people who were involved in all variety of activist communities that were worth reaching out to.

So we just kept on going back to that.

We have over 70 navigators who have been trained and are willing to help, which is great, because they provide additional capacities for their deep desire to help people as much as possible.

>> LEE PATTERSON: Joe answered that question, he did a lot more than navigator recruitment.

I did not do a ton, I just got to be there and listen and join in on their trainings they have on a regular basis.

And be able to provide information in those trainings when I was able.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: It's such an important aspect of all of this work, the network of resources.

That network of agencies and people and individuals who each bring something to the process so no one person is really trying to solve this on their own.

And libraries being able to tap into that is really powerful.

We have a question from the audience.

Yay.

Asking about resources who are facing eviction due to issues other than nonpayment.

So I'm going to ask the people who do that kind of library reference here in our panelists, but then also Joe to any of the navigator programs provide assistance in other situations?

We know it's going to vary by jurisdiction, so what can you tell us?

I'm loose balling to Deb and Lee and Joe for this one.

>> DEB HAMILTON: I think for evictions that are other than nonpayment, this is a good time to be available for what other services are available.

If there are local legal clinics people can call in to, or walk into, if there's local legal services that they can speak with an attorney to see what potential defenses they have for whatever the violation may be.

And another avenue too is if you have -- we have in Colorado a hot Hein called Colorado Housing Connects where this are housing counselors, and sometimes those types of resources might also be able to provide answers to those kinds of questions.

There's not going to be financial assistance, you probably saw with a lot of the moratoriums we saw during COVID, those didn't protect Ken ants that had other types of violations beyond nonpayment of rent.

So they really were still dealing with the same normal channels as before the pandemic, but figuring out where they can speak with an attorney for free is probably the best avenue, but also seeing what other maybe housing nonprofits that are available that can answer basic questions about landlord-tenant relationships and those types of things.

>> LEE PATTERSON: For us when it comes to clients who are coming in asking questions, especially when they're bringing their lease with them or their notice and they know it's for nonpayment for rent, the landlord does not want to renew the lease, just being honest with what we know.

Of course we're not attorneys and we preface all of our statements with, we are not attorneys.

But what I can say is, looks like this may be something you need to take a look at, or -- so your customers have a really good honest answer as fast as they can.

If it's nonpayment -- nonrenewal of lease, the legal -- they're going to be evicted.

The landlord has the right to not renew their lease from what I understand.

I'm not an attorney.

But with that being said, letting them know ahead of time, if this is not the way you want it to go, here are the other resources available, including shelters, including storage places to put your boxes.

Because you don't want your customers to enup being blindsided -- end up being blindsided where they are evicted at court and they have three days to get their stuff out.

It's not a good experience to move out and you don't want to, but it's worse when you're put into that crisis situation.

So being able to talk them through sometimes those options of, you need to call an attorney, these are the numbers for legal resources in your state, and also consider if this is not going the way we want it to go, what other options are available, and start walking down those paths if that means having conversations with family you have lost contact with, you might need to move in with, those kind of things.

Just making them prepared, because a lot of times, our customers, especially in a crisis, you cannot see the future or walk down that road, so being able to help them with that is a gracious gift we've learned.

>> JENNIFER PETERSON: I would say the navigators program does work with tenants being evicted for conditions of violation, or because the landlord has desighed not to reyou in a lease, and from our perspective it's critical to hook people up with legal services, or a drop-in chin I can if possible, so they do have an opportunity to talk with a lawyer or have legal representation.

But then there's also all this information too that you can provide them that's extremely valuable.

So the two things I would add to what Lee and Deb mentioned are one, basic familiarity with the evictions process.

Even in the conditions related side of things, can be really valuable.

For example, in South Carolina if you're facing eviction, because -- let's say on the condition side, landlord is conducting repairs, they're violating the terms of their lease from their perspective if they're not conducting repairs.

In that case you could think I'd withhold rent and they can't evict me.

That's not the case.

They have to go to the landlord first, they have to say you didn't document -- you have to document it, there's a process to follow.

As a nonlawyer you don't want to give them legal advice, but you can provide them information at a very high level.

It can be critical in making sure that they don't happen to violate the terms of their lease and put themselves in that position.

The second thing, and this has mixed success, but it's something we try to encourage tenants as much as possible, if there hasn't been an eviction filed, in particular, but even if there has been, is to try to talk with their landlords and try to negotiate as much as possible for added time, for amicable resolution to their case, because that can be enormously valuable.

Even a couple more days can forestall an unbelievable crisis for people and provide them with a grace period that can be critical.

And sometimes their landlords are more willing to work with them than they might otherwise be, and if you can encourage a 10 ant, hook, you're doing to be evicted or you have an eviction filed against you, that doesn't preend have you from trying to talk to your landlord to see if you have more time.

That can be another means of providing them support and giving them a chance at having an outcome that would be better for them than it otherwise would be.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Excellent all around.

It is such an important role in this arena to be able to provide information, and for library staff to inform themselves about that whole range of the process, the stages, and understanding, repercussions and building resources.

That just brings up a lot of questions.

But we can only do one at a time.

I'm remembering Ranya has put links -- I'm appreciating that Anya has put links for legal help, and those are valuable.

But that Ranya, I have a question.

I'm sorry if this may be slightly uncomfortable, but it came in through the registration form from somebody who is obviously a little frustrated, because they had tried to establish a relationship with their local legal aid, and this is in Florida, but they were told the legal aid was just too overwhelmed by their workload to partner or respond.

So any insights you could share around that?

>> RANYA AHMED: Well, as everyone is completely aware, the pandemic has put a lot of strain on legal aid organizations, both in terms of capacity and willingness to expand into other initiatives.

That is purely because I don't know the specifics of the situation, but I would venture that it is a matter of capacity.

However, I would suggest a different avenue in terms of maybe being more explicit about the ask, and starting small.

Let's say one -- holding one clinic at the library every two months.

Something of a smaller ask, and then they could grow from there.

But obviously we have to be respectful of the capacity issues at the moment.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Thank you.

Thank you for that.

>> DEB HAMILTON: Can I weigh in on this too?

In my position, part of the job is to do outreach with legal service organizations.

And it took a good couple of years for me to actually really get my foot in the door with folks, and I think it is just, even before the pandemic, all these organizations have way more need than they will ever be able to fill.

That's kind of just looking through it through their perspective.

Some things I found helpful, just in terms of relationship building, if there are -- in our state and other states there are access to justice committees that a lot of these people will sit on those particular boards and kind of work towards programs to help self-represented litigants have better outcomes in court.

So if you can find a way to get on to one of those committees, that's a great way to meet people and to highlight all of the services and resources that the library has to help those efforts.

That's one possibility.

I know that's not maybe something that's in the cards for everyone.

And then just to echo what Ranya has said, I think that's being very specific, starting small, just slowly creeking that -- creaking that door open as you get that foot there.

Also trying to demonstrate what the library can offer these organizations.

How might they be able to increase their capacity.

Thinking of this as a two-way street.

We obviously want to provide these legal services to our patrons, but what services can the library provide to these organizations?

And how can we make their work easier?

That's another way that I found, even just, hey, we have all this free meeting space, or after you talk to people and they're going to need to print off a bunch of stuff, they can come to the library, and if we know where to find the forms and you have a list of what specific things they need, we can help with that part.

So just trying to find ways to make their work easier too, has been successful for me in terms of building those relationships.

But it's hard.

It takes time.

And that's the thing, I expected I'd start this job and have all these relationships in place within a year, and it really was like two to three years.

So be patient be with everybody, be patient with yourself, and just keep at it.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Excellent insights.

Lee, I see you nodding your head a lot.

Did you want to add to that?

>> LEE PATTERSON: Deb nailed it.

Just offering other options, and maybe also looking at your local legal services is one avenue, but if they're overwhelmed, they are going to be right now, seeing if you have any attorneys who are friends of the library or friends of your board, who are willing to offer a webinar or something for free to be able to help your customers get some basic knowledge or some basic answers to the questions.

Which will also in turn help your legal services.

If customers aren't calling them all the time asking them, one, two, three-second questions, they have those answers and it might help with their volume as well.

Kind of don't take one no, just go get a lot of nos before you can get that yes.

>> DEB HAMILTON: That's a great point.

We work a lot with the local bar association as well.

And so while they might not traditionally be offering those kinds of free and low-cost legal services, they still have plenty of attorneys that are willing to give a free class here and there, and so that's a great way to get legal information to your patrons.

So, yeah, I think -- think outside of the box, that's really good advice.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Great.

And another point that Joe you brought up and one of your responses is the idea of prevention.

And pointing people towards the ERAP, the rental assistance programs, is one avenue.

Trying to get them to talk to their landlords so -- there's such a power imbalance between renter and landlord that the library staff really can play a role in encouraging them, that that is an avenue that could prevent a lot of repercussion down the road.

Another one I want to call on Madeleine here, is mediation, I wonder if you could talk really briefly about what that is.

That's something we haven't brought up before.

>> MADELINE YOUNGREN: Yeah, of course.

As Betha said, beyond pointing to ERAP and rental assistance, and know your rights and self-help information, libraries can really direct tenants to state and local mediation programs if they're available as an alternative method to resolving disputes and avoiding eviction without having to go to court.

So mediation is really a process that avoids procedural court costs, by using a neutral intermediary who assists landlords and tenants through their situations outside of court.

Whether or not a case has been filed.

By providing a setting that gives both parties the opportunity to further explain situations, and their constraints, as Joe was saying, really talk it out, mediation can promote further understanding of each others' circumstances and really help parties reach a resolution.

And some of these programs can actually be mandated in certain states and locales, I've seen examples of that.

A great example is the city of Philadelphia's eviction diversion program.

And it was created by the city council in June 2020, the program aims to kind of provide parties with both time and resources they need in order to come to an agreement by providing mediators who help facilitate negotiations and connect the parties to resources such as rental assistance during those facilitation meetings when they meet during a conference.

And those can happen over the telephone or videoconference.

But in April 2021, the municipal court required landlords seeking to evict for nonpayment of rent to apply for both rental assistance and participate in the program first through mediation, and wait 45 days before filing in court if the issues were not resolved.

And just sort of some success outcomes, in over 2,200 mediations where landlord and tenant participated over 90% resulted in an agreement or an agreement to continue to negotiate.

So the benefits of diversion and mediation include helping tenants avoid eviction, while also helping landlords avoid vacancies and unit turnover costs.

So if there are mediation programs available in the state or locale, it would be a great resource for libraries to point their patrons or tenants to.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Great, thanks so much for that information, that sounds very encouraging.

We've noted this in the webinar in previous sessions that once an eviction is filed, it can have repercussions for the tenant on down the road, and increase the likelihood of becoming without housing all together.

So any kind of prevention is really worth focusing effort around.

Question from the audience about renters -- small renters.

I think small landlords are selling their buildings so that there's no affordable housing, so this is a tangential issue, but obviously very related.

I know Joe you talked about getting into this arena around housing insecurity.

So how does eviction and all of that what we're talking about relate to or tie in to the need for affordable housing?

Big picture.



>> JOE SCHOTTENFELD: At the big picture they're directly linked.

As the stock of affordable housing gets reduced and decreases, as small landlords sell their properties and larger companies develop bigger developments, rents go up.

That puts increased pressure on long-term renters, and does provide landlords with additional incentives to either evict them or raise the rents on them to unstable levels.

The other aspect of it too is that is the macro picture, but it also offers another opportunity for advocacy as well.

Where we can help redress housing instability both by trying to provide individuals with rent assistance, legal or nonlegal, and by trying to figure out ways to create or add to the housing stock.

The last thing I'll add on, as Lee was mentioning, when someone is facing an eviction, there are all these crisis points they're potentially going to run into.

Where to keep their stuff, there's where they're going to go, and this crisis of lack of low-income housing adds another point.

They're not sure when they're going to be safely rehoused because there's nowhere to turn that is at their price point.

There's just this tangled knot ree awful web that really puts people in an incredibly precarious position often.

So if -- I don't quite have an answer for how libraries can be directly involved in increasing housing stock, I'm sure this are ways and models, but it's something to think about as well.

The issues are totally interrelated.

>> LEE PATTERSON: I would love to echo that.

I'm sure you all might have talked about Matthew Desmond's book, but when you look at being evicted and the housing crisis, you're not just looking at housing issues.

You're looking at issues that span a significant -- social workers believe in systems, you touch one part of the system, a person's life system, housing, and every single thing is affected.

Schooling, employment, safety, it's extreme.

And as a foster parent, we see it in a lot of other ways when children end up coming into our home just based on being homeless.

So I think being super informed about the potential out there and then helping hopefully being super passionate and advocating about helping your customers think proactively as much as you can, and helping get the word out that there are programs out there.

We love tenants, but we Loveland lords too.

So sometimes framing it like, we're here to help landlords also figure out how they can get their needs met without filing for eviction.

I think the mediation that was already mentioned is spot on.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Wonderful.

In our webinar we had Kristin Wong from the consumer finance protection bureau, and she brought up that aspect of landlords are very much part of this landscape, and I don't remember the percentage, but a surprisingly large percentage are small landlords.

They bought another house so they can have rental income as part of retirement.

So a very important part of the landscape.

>> LEE PATTERSON: One of the things I did not think of when we got started with this process, or the small -- were the small landlords in the rural areas.

Our county is very large, we've got 14 locations, so one of them is in a rural part of it, and how many landlords I saw at that location come in to apply for the emergency rental assistance, because they have great relationships with their tenants.

Their rent is not sky-high, but they need that money to keep their house.

So being able to help prioritize them and tell them great job, thank you for trying to figure out how to help.

I'm going to do my best to help you figure out how to get your income, just really understanding that that small landlord is very much a part of it.

It's hard sometimes not to paint the landlord as the bully or bad guy, because sometimes they really are trying to live like you and I.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Exactly.

So we do have a -- more of a exphent than a question from the audience on the flip side of the good landlord, bad landlord, about landlords doing things like retaliating against paying tenants who have done something such as trying to claim their rights, or establish their rights.

I'll just, maybe one of my colleagues can put a link, we have a story on WebJunction that is Aaron these lines, it's kind of both a-- along these lines.

It was really a process where an individual was being harassed, and was -- had to be persistent, but got sustained support through the library to connect with the legal help that she needed to ultimately resolve that.

So yes, those things happen.

And it's a role for the library to provide information about one's rights, and then help them connect with the people that can address those.

I'm watching the time left.

Thank you for all these links getting posted in the chat.

Because we have these questions come through registration, I'm going to go back to somewhat of the basics, because we had a question that -- they're kind of related.

It relates to building your network from the library, and building your set of resources.

One question is what are the three to four most relevant community resources?

If that's possible.

Because we know it's going to look very locally, but that's one.

And the other is, where would you start with a patron who comes into the library who is facing eviction?

I'm probably looking at Lee and Deb for this.

>> LEE PATTERSON: Can I take part two?

So when a person comes into the library and they're facing eviction, I think there's a couple things to be mindful of.

One, their emotions may be very pronounced and they may be very angry, they may be very tearful.

There could be a lot of different things.

So if you have the ability, the capacity to move that conversation not like to a private room, because we are in COVID world, but somewhere, a little more off to the side so they have the space and the ability to experience those emotions as they need to, because they're coming.

And also just being gracious to them as far as if they're angry or loud, orthos kind of things, helping them to A, maintain your library's rules, but give them a little grace as far as those emotions aren't towards you, they're just towards the situation.

But also I would just start by listening.

That I think, I had a customer years and years ago who taught me this.

She taught me bluntly, because I tend to in my career want to solve problems.

She was like, I just need -- sometimes you're not going to solve these problems.

Sometimes there are cases cut and dry, they owe a million dollars in rent, no one has it, just being a listening ear, a lot of times these customers can't go to family and friends, they're embarrassed, they don't have them, whatever it is, so listening to them and saying, okay, this is hard and I hear you and I'm going to give you the space and time to go through this.

But if there are things you can do and usually there are as far as resources, of just being able to connect them with those community resources for us as legal aid services, and other partners out this in the community, whether it be United Way, the NAACP, nonprofits which typically have funding, and my last piece of advice which I think is key to our program having been a success is trying to make connections.

I know we've talked about that, sometimes it's hard, but when you're able to tell a person, especially a person in crisis, don't just call this phone number, but when you call this number, someone is going to answer the phone and they're going to ask you these questions and a series of beeps, and they're r press nine -- give them those, walk them through it.

They're walking into a situation they may have never been in before, they're scared, there's power differential, so how can you help level the playing field?

I'm going to send you a nonprofit, you're going to this place, the brus will drop you in front, you're going to park here, there's two double doors.

Knock on it.

Go up to the counter.

The person at the desk, they sit down low, you stand up high -- I'm going to give it to you so you know what to expect and you don't feel alone.

I can't go with you, but Lee told me to walk to the right and this is the left and I don't know what we're doing.

So you no what to expect and you know if it doesn't go the way you want, you can come back and say, Lee, this is not happening.

If I have to, and I will do quickly, pick up the phone because I made those connections and go, Sarah, I sent Julie to you yesterday and she got this answer and I want to know how we can help her get her needs met.

So you might not be able to solve it but you can make some relationships and you can just be a listening ear.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Beautiful.

Empathic listening is so important, and it's more important than getting an answer.

For library staff, you're really not going to give the legal answer, that's not your role, and so focusing on that empathy is huge.

Deb, did you want to take the first --

>> DEB HAMILTON: I totally agree with everything that Lee just had to say.

In terms of I guess the first part of the question, those three to four resources, in this area I think obviously knowing where they can find free or low-cost legal help, whether that's a clinic or services, that's going to be one of them.

If there are self-help services in the courts, and so this again is going to var I by jurisdiction, so is there a person at the courthouse that can answer questions about paperwork?

What forms do you need, what order do you file them in?

That's usually not something we're able to do at the library.

So if you have a partner in the courts that cannable s some of those questions, and that can help people through navigate the court system, that's another good thing to be aware of.

And then also knowing who your housing service providers are, do they have housing counselors, are there places people can get questions answered through those kinds of nonprofits.

Sometimes with this area too, we have a group in town called the Independence Center that advocates for people with disabilities.

And so that can also sometimes play a part in some of these disputes in terms of what's a reasonable accommodation, is the landlord being fair, or what does the landlord need to provide, so places like that can also help to resolve disputes for people.

Those would be the ones I would focus on first.

And in terms of finding them, every community is going to be different.

Try two-on-one as a good starting point, and getting to know who is in your community is a really big part of this work.

And building those relationships, so yeah, you can give people a heads up.

Hey, they don't ever answer their phone, but leave a message.

They will call you back.

Or, they never answer their phone.

And they never return messages.

You should email or just walk in.

Knowing those kinds of things can save people a hot of frustration, because by and large you're going to be dealing with folks who are frustrated because they are in the middle of a crisis and they also have felt like no one has listened to them throughout this whole experience.

So anything you can do to smooth those things along, I think is great advice.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Wonderful.

Thank you Joe for answering a question in chat.

And thanks for our team to posting that eviction resources for libraries, because that has a lot of guidance on building your collection of resources, where to turn a lot of ideas on local agencies that might be helpful.

In the last couple minutes I just really want to address a question that has come up over and over about mission creep or compassion fatigue, I heard a term today, compassion fade.

So the question specifically is, is this not part of a larger mission creep for libraries similar to the ouched crisis and the -- the opioid crisis and the administration of Narcan for drug overdoses, especially given all the strains on libraries.

Any insights on how you would respond to that?

>> DEB HAMILTON: For me the answer is no, because my job is to provide legal information and to connect people with community resources that provide services in the area of law.

So for me it seems like this is actually my mission, and what I was hired to do.

But there are times I totally understand the mission creep frustration, because there are things sometimes I'm like, why are we doing this?

This is -- but for me, I try and always stay focused on helping people connect with the legal information, and what are the community resources that I can point them to, since I can't directly hold their hand and walk them through this problem that they're facing.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Lee, I'll give you the last word here.

>> LEE PATTERSON: I will echo that.

I absolutely think you are connecting people to resources which speaking out of turn because I am not a librarian, but I believe is the mission and the goal, is to connect people to resources, whether it's a book or a website, or a community agency.

You are helping to answer questions and meeting a community need.

And lastly, I will say, the word of 2020, 2021, and it looks like 2022 is pivot.

And so as we look at libraries and growing and lasting the next millions of years, just considering your mission and how do you serve people in helping them meet their needs.

That's what we're trying to do.

>> BETHA GUTSCHE: Wonderful.

Very heartening way to close the session.

Thank you everyone for your valuable and valid -- valued participation.

Brooke?

>> BROOKE DOYLE: Yes.

I will finish us off.

I was just really inspired.

I thank you so much for all the folks in the room, the folks with their good questions.

I hope that you've gotten some more answers some more ideas that you've been inspired to reach out and find a new relationship to begin to cultivate.

These are two really critical things to take away with you, the courses, if this is all new to you, civil legal reference is new to you, and the eviction page.

And keep coming back, we'll try to keep adding to it.

And -- I want to do one more so you can get in touch with folks if you want to do any follow-up.

Thank you so much for your time.

And enjoy the rest of your day.

>> JENNIFER PETERSON: The slides are also available as a PDF, so you can get back to this information, and as you leave, I'm going to send you to a short survey.

We collect your feedback to share with our presenters, and it helps us guide our ongoing programming.

Thank you so much to all of you for bringing your great expertise and passion and compassion to this session.