We're going to shift over here and I'll welcome my colleague who is going to introduce our session today and I'll get our recording started. 
Thank you for leading us into today's session and we look forward to leading our additional presenters. 
>> Great. Thank you. We're so glad that you're here with us today to talk about civil legal programming and how libraries can help bridge the justice gap.
I am Brooke Doyle from web junction. I'm joined by rockstars sharing their expertise and experiences in the presentation. I had the pleasure of meeting both of them through a grant project where web junction partnered with the legal services corporation to try to help public libraries be better equipped to be access points for legal information. I want to start with the justice gap. We know that the justice gap is large and profound and we anticipate it widening in the wake of the pandemic. We know many people are struggling with legal issues, eviction, custody questions, job loss, discrimination. Figuring out how to collect benefits if they feel they're being denied. Often these problems have a legal dimension. They knew the respect and trust that public libraries have in their communities and wanted to help equip public library staff to be more comfortable with legal questions from patrons. We know these questions can be really stressful and they're stressful for the patron and to you because the stakes are quite high. So they partnered with web junction on this national training initiative. We'll talk about the products of that grant today. I want to take a minute to acknowledge that systemic racism does permeate our justice system and that we are three white women talking about this issue. We hope to frame our presentation around how libraries can be partners in this work as active participants with our communities. Building relationships as antiracist allies and aligning our resources to reflect that. We hope after our time today that you will be inspired by examples and think about how some new civil legal programming ideas at your library or maybe you're ready to begin this work, this programming. We want to frame this presentation around the needs of your community and how you uncover those needs. That needs to be the starting point for all of this work. And how do you develop the program from idea to outcomes? We'll spend quite a bit of time discussing partnerships and the different forms that they can take and we'll have plenty of times for questions. The three of us hope to be very real today and very authentic and talk about programming challenges and failures and we're happy to hear about the struggles that you have had as well and help to troubleshoot those. So let's get started. We would love to understand more about your communities legal needs. If you go to the link in the chat we'll find a link to another poll. It should open in a browser. Please check the top two legal needs as you know it. Those won't be reflected in our numbers here today. Okay. Housing is a clear forerunner right now at least. 
It's fun to watch the live numbers come in. Give you another maybe 30 seconds or so. 
Housing still a real clear, clear leader. 
Still registering as top two. So that's significant. Thank you so much. That's really helpful to see the range of needs there. So I'd love to get a response in chat about how do you get this information? How do you know about your community's legal needs? Is it simply from conversations with patrons, what questions you're fielding at the desk, is it connecting with community groups? Are you using indices put out by the government, where are you getting your information? And how are you having trouble? Is there missing information that you'd like to find and they need to describe that. Somebody is using law library and the court system. Great. Sounds like some people are using a mix. Great. 
That's really helpful. We'll talk a little bit more about how to find those needs. I think a lot of it is connecting to your community and listening. Being a really good listener and hearing what the community is saying. 
Thank you for your participation. I'm going to start with a big centerpiece of the grant that I just described is web junction self-pace courses. It's a series of four, free, self-pace courses that are strengthening the skills and confidence of public library staff. So if civil legal information is new to you, if this whole area is new for you, I'd recommend that you start at the beginning. There's a bit of a sequence to them but they don't have to be done in order and they really, the first course covers the justice gap and actually has some of the assignments have you going and looking at some of the indices in your community and finding some of the data sources to inform yourself about where are the needs the greatest. How do you find those high quality resources and how do you organize them in a way that's really helpful and at your fingertips? The third course is really getting a look at the landscape of the civil legal providers in your area and what are their focus areas? So maybe you have, and this might reveal some gaps, but what are the best places to turn for veterans? 
What are the best family law issues? And how can you do a really successful referral? A hand off? What is that agency looking for from the library and that client hand off, what is that going to look like so it can be successful and the fourth is conducting the legal reference interview and lots of chances to practice and hone your skills. So we have heard and pride ourselves on making our assignments really practical. They're not meant to be busy work. The work that you'll do will help you do your job better. For example, in that third course, research the providers in your area and then start to make some phone calls and figure out, okay, I didn't know that that agency doesn't take that referral or doesn't --
the income threshold at this provider is this and I need to know that when I'm making a successful referral and beginning to build that relationship. I would highly recommend thinking about taking these courses in a group. If you have a few colleagues, even a hand full of colleagues that are interested in this, they're great to do together. Law is so local so a challenge of the grant is writing a national training curriculum for a topic that is so locale. So a lot of the assignments is localizing the content. So those terminology and the whole landscape of the topic and you do the work of what it looks like in your area. Some people have huge eviction problems in their area and the other places, it's not that big of an issue. 
Doesn't mean that you're taking on a subject matter expert. It means the opposite. You're just a guide through the courses providing structure, a schedule, some accountability to take colleagues through it. So I really recommend thinking about taking them in a group. I'm going to turn it over now, the way we learned about Jemma was through the courses. She took the four courses and participated in a focus group and our facilitator said you need to talk to this person. She is a model student and took the learning and ran with it. So I'll hand it over to Gemma and let her share her story. 
>> Thank you. I appreciate it. 
So first and foremost, my name is Gemma. I have worked in libraries for about 12 years now and most of my experiences in library management. I was asked to take the web junction courses and I saw it as a way of continuing my education. So I took the web junctions creating pathways to civil legal justice.
Now as a Newbie this was a great opportunity to apply what I learned in school but expand on the subject matter and that may have only been discussed briefly in school. We were given supporting articles, lectures and homework and enhanced the learning experience and brought a lot of value not only for my institution here but also for community. So this also got me to think in depth about what my community needs. Is there a justice gap? Do we know where to find help? So I began to silently observe who I directly served. Who was coming into my library and what were they asking for and I started noticing a majority of the people that I serve were retired veterans, families coming in asking for court documents and they were also not just familiar with how things were set up or where to find that information. 
So they could file it with the court next door. So as I went through the program, I really took it to heart and I started working on my first assignment which was a guide and I'm sure most of you that are librarians are very familiar with this and like me, how do I put it, have moments from grad school for creating a guide to whatever class you're in. This is going to be a valuable tool. We had a lot of people coming in looking for this type of help. So it was created and I started with what I knew was available locally and that was within the library here. So I started looking at some of our databases that we had available. I also started to look at billboards and outdoor marketing to see is that a service that I can take advantage of and I found a lot of great stuff. So it's not just, you know, doing a simple google search. It is doing a little bit of footwork but in the end, it provides you with such a great piece of information that you can just easily hand over to a person and help get them where they need to be essentially because I'm not a lawyer. I didn't go to school for that. I'm a librarian so I know where to find information and this is such a great tool and we put it to use right away.
So this started a spark. While COVID is going on and I'm like okay. I can't really do inperson programs but how can I get more information out there? So this was created. Now, me personally, this is a trade. I like to call it channelling my inner Leslie Knope and like the beloved parks and Rec character I must too do things over the top. Hence the three inch binder. This is the veterans resource and benefits binder and we keep it at the front desk. 
And after a little bit of research it means that we put our veterans first here. 
Remember that the majority of our patrons that we serve are veterans, it got me to thinking.
Do they know where to find their benefits? You'll probably say walk them over to the computer. 
In my particular community, that's not the case. I have 20-year-olds that come in that will sit and stair at a computer it first starts with our veteran resources and contact information as well as where they are located. It also has federal, state, local and military benefits. It has a section for the LGBTQ community, a section for women and a section that highlights all the VA clinics within the area and doctors that serve veterans. Our binder lives at the front desk in the reference section. It has been highly utilized not only by patrons but also by staff. So since the binder was such a success, I couldn't stop there, of course. This was begging to become a program. But how could I create a program in the middle of a pandemic? So I started to think about my community. What really motivates me? Me personally, I'm a military spouse and still learning about military benefits and veteran benefits. Pictured here is my lovely fiancee who I have not seen in almost a year now. He has been on deployment since August 1st, so shout out to him and he's coming home soon. 
That's what motivates me. I realize that I'm an information professional. So if I'm struggling to find information on veteran benefits, there must be other people out there struggling just as much as I am.
That's when I decided we needed to create a program but it wasn't going to be a program taught by me. I needed to find an expert in the subject matter and I needed to be the facilitator for this. So it's okay to not be a presenter. It's okay to be an ally. For example, you might be passionate about black lives matter, LGBTQ, adult literacy or the environment. 
Remember it's better to partner with a community expert who can speak on the matter. It also helps to build a new partnership between the library and that organization. Team work makes the dream work. I highly stand behind that phrase. I was given permission to interview Robert Watson who is the director of veteran services. We drafted up some interview questions and also took time to practice together and basically it went so smoothly that we got in front of an iPad and pressed facebook life and we had an instant program. Not only did it become like instantly available for our patrons but it talked to all of the county. So it wasn't just library and patrons, it was veterans and the library. It proved to be a very valuable one not only for us but for our community, it was just worth it in the end. Don't be afraid of hearing the word no or that this organization doesn't work with us. I can't tell you how many times being in libraries that I heard that. Most recently I was told that a historical society would never work with us. I built a whole program around them and sent it to them and now we have a new partnership and they're actually letting us into their library and being part of their collection. So it's phenomenal. Worse case scenario, try to find a partner that will work with you and say yes. In my case, I had the pleasure of interviewing Mr. Watson and we both decided that it went so well that we're going to continue to do these programs together. So a new partnership that wasn't necessarily formed before we now have. Outcomes. 
Outcomes of any kind of programming. We have to think about how is it going to be presented? How are we going to get this information out? But at the end, what are people going to take away from it. Here's statistics from the program. As you can see, it costs us absolutely nothing. We did most of our marketing virtually. We also had handouts as well. We created this new partnership between the veterans resources and the library. The impact on the community was positive because we had patrons calling up the resource center and asking for help and then also we were basically -- it wasn't just patrons. It wasn't just the veterans. It was also some of our own staff members that didn't know that they had these particular benefits available to them. And it helped dismiss any rumors or give new definition, you know, to the word veteran. 
Like, we were able during this program to define what a veteran is. One of the most common mistakes that we make is we assume that a veteran is a person that served during a time of war which isn't the case. So it created this trust also within our community showing that we are a reliable source of information. So just keep trying and just remember that sometimes you're going to have a huge success with a program. In this case I had 300 views while we were live and that's to me absolutely phenomenal. But sometimes there's going to be flops and that's okay. And you just get back up and keep going forward. All right. So do you see any chat that needs to be addressed at this time? 
>> I do. There's one question that just really straightforward about where to get veteran information. 
>> Well, there's a couple of different places. I usually recommend that you start locally. Most counts do have a veteran resource center. So I would see if they have one just for veterans. It just depends on what type of benefits you're looking for and even going to the VA hospital too. I usually recommend start locally because they're going to not only know their benefits in the area but they're also going to know federal and state too. It does differ from state to state. 
>> That's really inspiring. 
>> One thing that I heard when you told me is the idea of there's small business loans for veterans that want to start a business and that was something that a lot of folks didn't know about and that was intriguing to them. 
>> Another great stop to start. 
>> Okay. Thank you so much. 
>> We'll share a unique programming idea that I learned about from Kansas city public library and she offered this program called binders for life in January 2020 in partnership with a local church and their facilitators. It was three sessions to help folks organize legal, medical and financial real estate and estate planning documents. So all of those important papers maybe stuffed in some drawer or maybe not even around that we need and need to be organized and at the ready for an emergency. This stuff is not fun but it's really important and makes an emergency much more smooth. She got outstanding feedback from 40 participants and intended to work with her legal community to set up follow up sessions particularly in regards to estate planning, wills and truststrusts. So I love this as an example of unique programming on a topic that is not always fun. 
I need this program. And I love that she found a church for a partner and that's a great use of community resources. I call this almost preventive legal programming. So she was ready to do her next legal programming to follow along with this and COVID happened. She had changed plans and everybody just kind of -- 
everybody stopped and they invested in the program so the patrons could have it for free. 
Really listening to community need. So COVID put our mortality front and center and forced really difficult conversations. 
Inspired by an article in the local paper highlighting the life and death concerns of teachers returning to the classrooms during the pandemic. 
So they heard that and they worked with local experts to pull together this end of life planning series. It was a four part series that included estate planning, how to navigate a life altering illness, how to avoid bankruptcy and planning a funeral. They partnered with the center for practical bioethics, estate planning attorney and hospice director. Real diverse folks. All part of this. A million issues involved with planning. They strategically planned it for November of 2020 in hopes that people would tune in ahead of family gathering around Thanksgiving and holidays to be ready for conversations based on the subjects. I love this as a great virtual program listening to community needs. 
And legal is in everything, even planning your funeral. All the programs are on their Youtube channel and Jennifer put the link in chat there. If you want to take a deeper dive into this area, please do. Thanks for sharing these ideas with us. And I love the range of programming that legal can look like. So thanks for that. Any questions? 
>> There is one question. 
Somebody asked why would a national military service have varying state benefits. Maybe Gemma can speak to that. 
>> So basically you have national which is all of the U.S. and then you have state benefits because we -- as a state you get different grants or different money coming in for particular things that -- you know, let's say there's a veteran's hurricane fund for instance in Florida. So if your house gets washed away by a storm, well, a hurricane grant in the middle of let's say Nevada, it wouldn't make sense. 
So that's why you see national, state and local. 
>> That's great. Thanks so much.
>> I'm going to turn it over to Becky and let her take the next section. 
>> So I love this topic. It's a real gift that libraries get to be apart of legal conversations.
Often this is when our community is in a moment of crisis, of need and the library gets to play a really amazing role connecting people with resources. I really appreciate having multiple partners in this process. Recognizing we're not lawyers and we don't play them on TV and we're not expected to.
So how can we bring our subject matter experts into the room and also bring our strength as libraries into a room. Thinking about that from both sides. How can we be promotional partners and how can we bring in presenterspresenters. So I want to give a little bit more information about myself and what I do. I'm the programming and outreach manager here in Annapolis, Maryland. You should come. It's a great place to be. What I love about this county is it's really a microcosim of every library that you could bring to the table. So in the northern part of the county we have very urban. We have the capital but we also have the southern part of the county which is rural. We have farm land, beautiful, horses and so it's a real nice mix of different kind of community and different kinds of need. We also have military. So definitely thinking about the different military and veteran needs and some of the transitional needs. That comes with military community. We have a lot of changing demographics. 
We have increased our Spanish speaking population. We have aging baby boomers so lots of different changing demographics that have different legal needs.
Back in 2017 we adopted the urban library council statement on race and social equity. And that also brought a different set of goals emphasizing a lot of our values around diversity, education, digital equity as well as healthy sustainable communities and I say that to give some context to some of the partnerships that we have developed to really support some of those goals. We also work closely with families impacted by incarceration which has different legal needs. We have an early literacy program that we have with the correctional center so trying to find ways to bridge this gap between the needs of our community and some of the resources that the library can bring to the table. 
So I want to talk more about our partners and partner network and how can we -- how can we use our strengths to bring more audience to seize programs. First, we definitely have participation partners. One of my favorites is with the local probono committee. We also have our military volunteer library service. The bar association. 
Many, many different local partners that help us with sharing about our events. 
They'll sometimes co-host events with us and that's a great way to get participation because participation generally is going to make for a more successful event. This could be anything from sharing flyers, whether it's we're sharing one of their flyers or they're sharing one of our flyers or both. Sometimes, especially in the last year and a half, we have done more co-hosting for virtual programs like through facebook. And then we do a lot of e-mail distribution. So that's a great way of taking an opportunity and sharing it as widely as we can across different networks because that's absolutely one of the ways that we get participation and then lastly, thinking about presenter partners, so this is some of that community education. Many of our legal partners are looking for ways to connect with community. That is library on a good day, but here's the thing, I know Brooke has heard this many times from me. But very often with my agencies and my lawyers, it tends to get a bit what I call broccoli. It's a little, well, boring. It's dry. 
It's the stuff that we probably should be thinking about but it's not exactly fun. End of life, going to court, these are things that are heavy, important, but not exactly pleasurable. So here's where the library can really bring the other side to this, what I call cotton candy. Library can bring the lawyer -- maybe it's through a legal information sheet, just a simple flyer, but if I put that on a table as I'm talking to parents at the end of a story time, that's going to give a different opportunity to connect with those customers in that one-on-one safe space, low risk, and we'll be having fun through a story time or a festival or something like that but we're able to have the relationship moment to connect around the harder, maybe broccoli-type topics. So I mentioned partners earlier. Presenter partners. She is part of the circuit court and the law library and our law library has been a fierce advocate and co-conspirator in sharing legal information. We co-designed this program, the ask a lawyer in the library virtual program. Prior to person it was an in-person program. 
We're actually able to provide better service. There's translation that's available through language line. We can have language line call into a breakout room so that we can have a translater there to help do just translation for various languages. Most of the time, it's Spanish. And then we have the customer, the pro bono lawyer and potentially the language line in the room as well. So when they first started this virtually, the ask a lawyer in the library virtual program, it actually didn't get a lot of support. Because it wasn't connected with the library in the same way. What we were able to do is connect with library staff to help as a tech host to help facilitate some of the back end for this program and once we did that, we were able to really make improvements in participation and now, most of the time, the meeting is booked.
Like completely booked and we have great feedback from the lawyers because they don't have to do the travel time. We're getting better participation because it's a virtual service. 
So especially for some of the customers in our south county near the farm land and Marina where transportation is a real challenge. It takes you about an hour if you're driving and public transportation, it can take two hours. So transportation is a real challengechallenge. With the virtual programming we're able to remove that barrier and it's been a fantastic way to connect our KUS maniers with legal resources. 
Another program that we will have our first virtual -- 
actually in the next couple of weeks, is an expongement clinic.
There's another non-profit that we work closely with and they're going to be facilitating the clinic for us and again we'll be working with the bar association. So what I love is connecting with people in their moment of need. Giving information. Breaking down the anxieties and the way that we really are able to do that is through relationships. It's part of our community plan. So when we're sharing information about these programs, promoting them. 
It's through a network of caseworkers and churches, different religious groups, neighborhood associations, it's a real relationship built approach. We get participation because it's not just a flyer hanging on a wall. Although we do that too, but it's also the recommendation from the neighbors around this service. 
And again, we will be doing this virtually and the group that has worked with us has done this throughout COVID with virtual clinics. So here's the chat question. What are some of your legal partnership challenges? Do you want to throw any of that into the chat? And we can see if we can do crowd sourcing. 
Distance, absolutely. Virtual programming has been an amazing resource if you have a chance --
yes, only a handful of attorneys. And a small local grant or a local community foundation. We had some luck, even through our leadership groups, like there's a leadership and they have hosted and done the funding for some of the different programs we have done. Knowing who to contact. 
Absolutely. What I love is that we can get very resourceful and just start using those beautiful reference interview skills to that sort of moment. Let's figure out who I should be contacting with starting with some of your allies in the community. Finding out. Asking questions. Sometimes we have even talked to -- we were talking about how we'll just drive around the neighborhood and look for signs for new lawyers and just start calling folks and asking, hey, would you be interested in doing a program? Are you interested in connecting with community? 
Absolutely. Getting people to come to the event. That's where that partner can be a game changer. Someone that has the relationship or the potential incentive to offer for that moment of connection. We had some luck with our social worker at the library program. Which wasn't a legal program but they recognize some of the legal needs of their clients. We were able to recommend the ask a lawyer program through the social worker program. And it's what I think of as the Venn diagram moment where we're building the connections and the partners. 
>> Can I jump in for a moment. 
>> Absolutely. 
>> We have definitely heard about the lack of attorneys. I learned a term that was new to me, called frontier countsunties. 
They're more sparsely populated than a rural county. I'll put a link in the chat about a program we heard about in Colorado where Denver had loads of attorneys interested in doing pro Bono work but they couldn't get to the people that needed them. So the legal services organization did a survey of who could be the candidate and the answer was the library. So they created this great program where the library provides the space. And some time the patron has to do the connecting themselves. And sometimes the library does a little bit more where they're doing the connecting and maybe some basic intake form and then faxing it in. Then you open the computer and hit connect and then you're talking to an attorney in Denver. So it's a resource distribution problem. 
So take a look at that article. 
It was really inspiring to me if you need to go to a more urban area where you'll find the attorneys. I didn't know if Gemma or Becky wanted to talk about privacy in virtual meetings. I don't have an answer to that. 
>> I can share a little bit on that. We are aware that once you're in a virtual space there's a potential for risk. We definitely emphasize the customers ability to choose what they disclose is probably the best way to say that. So sometimes they're just getting general information. A place to get started. They're probably not going to dig into all the legal aspects. But it can be just that moment to ask for clarification on a term. Those aren't necessarily going to be how they worry about risk so much. 
>> And basically patrons can either come in or schedule an appointment with us and we have two laptops set up, one at one end of the table and one at the other because we still observe the six feet rule here. And we have taken a few people where they needed to show up for court via a zoom meeting. In that case we just give them access to our laptop and they are able to use what we have available for them.
>> So the next slide, I just wanted to mention briefly. One of the things that I really appreciate is how legal is in everything. So we do have military and many of our businesses are contractors from the government. That business, legal, military and very often stem is a really amazing place to bring some of that legal information in a way that you might not expect. Environmental justice, Maryland is known for beautiful Chesapeake Bay and we are incredibly grateful for having access to the water. So how we connect with diversity and access to the water. And bringing that into other areas of programs and how we discuss and cultivate space for legal in the different themes and let me reach out to see if they might be able to add value to the program. Or the partnership. 
>> Okay. Thank you. I have been scanning. 
>> I haven't seen any questions but feel free to post if you have any outstanding questions. 
And helping parents navigate IEP set up would be a very successful program I'm sure in many communities. So feel free to post questions and we could hear more from Gemma and Rebecca. 
>> Where is the neighborhood of hope? 
>> Somebody mentioned it. 
>> Community of hope is a model that came from family program, it's a framework. We had four communities of hope. One in the north near Brooklyn Park on the edge of Baltimore. One around Annapolis, one in the southern area and one in south county. So the community of hope is really a collaboration that we have with different county agencies, businesses, community members, nonprofits, it's a fantastic way for us to work together really. 
To try to solve some of the different community needs, whether it's transportation Wifi, digital access. It's some of the most impactful work that I've ever gotten to be apart of.
>> Great. Thanks, Becky. I would be remiss if I did not give a shout out to law libraries. 
Becky talked about Joanie which is sort of, I think, some of the inspiration around some of the great work going on. We have gotten the opportunity to partner with many law libraries on this grant and they are amazing and those legal questions that you're like I'm out of my depth very quickly, find a law library that you can go to that can be your next phone call to help you discipher the jargon and understand the forms. They're generous with their knowledge and not every state has law libraries, I know that. But a lot do and even if it's not in your county they're often willing to answer questions from different counts.
And for someone that doesn't know where to start, a law library would be a great place to start and they could help you navigate the landscape and have the bigger picture of okay this is the first phone call that you want to make. This is a partner that you want to start with and they're a great connector. So I would encourage you to try to find your local law librarian. I have a couple of final things to say but I wanted to give Becky and Gemma a chance to share any final words. 
>> I wanted to mention we did do a program on a renter eviction avoidance program. Housing was on the list of challenges so just even that renter eviction piece and as we're still in our COVID recovery, I recommend legal aid, different cash campaigns, things like that, civil justice incorporated. 
There's so many amazing partners that we work with to find ways to get that information into their hands. 
>> Do you have any final words? 
>> Sure. Much like Becky, we're working with our community leaders. We had a very successful week with our rental assistance program here where we hopefully saved a couple hundred houses from -- well, apartments from being vacated and ended up getting mentioned in our local news because of all the hard work from staff and it was working with the county and working together and getting the word out to the public. Letting them know the services that are available within the library and the support that they have from us. This Tuesday was phenomenal.
The website shutdown and that happened -- we started at 9:00 a.m. and went through until about 12:30 so, you know, it's all about partnership, word of mouth, working together and, you know, like I said earlier, team work makes the dream work. 
>> That's great. What a great story. Don't be afraid to fail. 
Not all programs are going to be a success and that's okay. I'd also say start small. 
Partnerships can take a lot of different forms and you know start with that low hanging fruit that could be established or tiny and beginning and emerging and they're all valid. 
Start with that low hanging fruit and go from there. I'd recommend the web junction courses again if this is a new area for you and you want to understand civil legal programming and civil legal in general and also that learner guide that Jennifer put a link in recently. So thank you so much for your time. We appreciate you joining us. 
Please be in touch. We're all very interested in helping folks in this area. 
>> Fantastic. Thank you, Brooke, Becky and Gemma and our captioner and WJ support for today's session. I will send you all an e-mail later on today once the recording is available and I'll send a certificate automatically for attending today so you don't need to request that. And I'll send you to a short survey as you leave here today. We collect your feedback and we'll share that with our presenters and it helps us guide our on going programming. So we really value your input on that as well. 
Everyone have a fantastic rest of your week and thank you for all that you do to support your communities civil legal needs and good luck on your next steps and we hope to hear from you with your success stories soon. 
Thanks so much.