I'M STARTING OUR RECORDING AND I'M GOING TO INTRODUCE MY COLLEAGUE, BETHA GUTSCHE, PROGRAM MANAGER
HERE AT OCLC.
WELCOME BETHA.
>> THANK YOU SO MUCH, JENNIFER.
I'M VERY, VERY HAPPY TO BE HERE.
I'M BETHA GUTSCHE, ON THE BOTTOM THERE, AND I'M JOINED TODAY BY LUIS INTERIANO, WHO WILL GIVE US
THE VIEW FROM THE FRONT LINES AS A REFERENCE LIBRARIAN, AND THEN FROM CATHERINE MCGUIRE, WHO IS A
LAW LIBRARIAN AND HAS DONE EXTENSIVE TRAINING WITH PUBLIC LIBRARIES SO REALLY GLAD TO HAVE EVERYONE
HERE TODAY WITH ME.
AND LET'S GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED.
IF I COULD.
HMM.
OKAY, HERE WE ARE.
REAL EXCITED THAT THERE ARE SO MANY OF YOU WHO ARE INTERESTED IN THIS VERY IMPORTANT TOPIC, SO WE
HAD A REALLY STRONG REGISTRATION AND IT IS GREAT TO SEE SO MANY OF NUT ROOM TODAY.
I DEFINITELY WANT TO GIVE A SHOUT OUT AND A THANK YOU TO OUR FUNDERS, WHICH WHETHER YOU THE MELON
FOUNDATION AND THE SUSAN CLOWN EXCHANGING.
AND ALSO OUR PRIMARY PARTNER IN THIS PROJECT, WHICH IS THE LEGAL SERVICES CORPORATION, LSC, THEY
ARE A NONPROFIT, THEY WERE ESTABLISHED BY CONGRESS WAY BACK IN 1974 TO PROVIDE FINANCIAL SUPPORT
FOR CIVIL LEGAL AID TO LOW INCOME AMERICANS, AND WE ARE HONORED TO BE COLLABORATING WITH THEM TO
DEVELOP TRAINING FOR PUBLIC LIBRARIANS TO EXTEND THAT ACCESS TO CIVIL LEGAL AID WE HAVE LESS THAN
AN HOUR TO COVER A TOPIC THAT IS REALLY IS PRETTY HUGE.
SO WE'RE GOING TO BE SKIMMING IT AT A FAIRLY HIGH LEVEL, BUT HOPEFULLY GIVE YOU ENOUGH SUBSTANCE TO
BE MEANINGFUL.
BUT, REALLY, CULMINATIONING, AS YOU SEE IN THAT LAST BULLET POINT, WITH SOME INFORMATION ABOUT A
LIVE ONLINE COURSE THAT WEB JUNCTION WILL BE OFFER FORGET FREE THAT WILL ENABLE A LOT DEEPER AND
MORE EDUCATIONAL LOOK AT DEEPER AND
MORE EDUCATIONAL LOOK AT HOW PUBLIC LIBRARIES LIBRARIES 1200 PEOPLE REGISTER FOR THIS WEBINAR, SO CLEARLY A STRONG INTEREST, FREEDOM NATIONALLY
FROM PUBLIC LIBRARIES, NOT SURPRISING BECAUSE THIS IS THE KEY TARGET GROUP FOR OUR TRAINING AND OUR
INFORMATIONS, SO 64% OF YOU FROM PUBLIC LIBRARIES AND A STRONG REPRESENTATION FROM A WIDEN AT
THIS TIMETIES.
SO, PROM ANYONE -- FROM A WIDE VARIETY OF ENTITIES.
SO STATE AGENCIES, PROUD TO SEE STATE LIBRARIES AND ACADEMIC LIBRARIES, 9%.
THEN 7% COVERING GOVERNMENT, LIKE YEAR SORT THATS AND ANOTHER BUCKET, WHICH IS FOUNDATIONS AND
SCHOOL LIBRARIES AND COMMUNITY COLLEGE, VOCATIONAL TECH SO GREAT TO SEE VARIETY, THAN ALSO COMES
WITH A VARIETY OF EXPERTISE SO I INVITE YOU TO ACTIVELY USE THE CHAT WINDOW SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE.
IF YOU'RE MORE ON THE BEGINNING END OF THE SPECTRUM, DON'T FEEL SHY ABOUT POSTING QUESTIONS IN THE
CHAT BECAUSE THAT IS A GOOD OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A GREAT EXCHANGING OF INFORMATION AND KNOWLEDGE.
I WANT TO START OUT WITH WHAT WE CALL A ON SCREEN WHITE BOARD ACTIVITY AND IT INVOLVED USING AND
NOTATION TOOLS.
SO IF YOU HOVER YOUR MOUTH OVER THE PRESENTATION SCREEN, YOU SHOULD SEE A VERTICAL PILL MENU.
OOPS.
SORRY ABOUT THAT.
AND LOOK FOR THE SQUIGGLE ICON IN THAT MENU.
ONCE YOU CLICK THE SQUIGGLE THAT OPENS TO THE LEFT ANOTHER VERTICAL MENU OF ANNOTATION TOOLS.
LOOK FOR THE OPEN WHITE SQUARE HALFWAY DOWN AND THEN CLICK THAT LITTLE TEENY, TIMEY ARROW TO GET
THE CHECK MARK.
AND YOU'RE ALREADY PRACTICE, ON THE SCREEN, YOU'RE FULLY INVITED TO CONTINUE TO PRACTICE.
ONCE I SEE THE SCREEN FILL UP WITH QUITE A FEW CHECK MARKS AND PEOPLE ALWAYS GET EXPRESSIVE AND I
LOVE IT.
BUT ONCE I FEEL CONFIDENT THAT YOU'VE FOUND CHECK MARKS AND ADVANCED APOLOGIES FOR THOSE JOINING
FROM MOBILE DEVICES OR THE WEB APP, SADLY YOU WON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THIS, BUT YOU CAN ALWAYS PROVIDE
YOUR ANSWERS IN CHAT.
SO I WOULD ASK YOU TO WITHHOLD YOUR SCRIBBLES AND CHECK MARKS FOR NOW SO WE CAN MOVE TO THE NEXT
SCREEN AND ASK THIS IMPORTANT QUESTION OF YOU.
OKAY.
HOLD YOUR CHECK MARKS, HERE WE GO.
SO WE MOVE TO THE NEXT
SCREEN AND ASK THIS IMPORTANT QUESTION OF YOU.
OKAY.
HOLD YOUR CHECK MARKS, WITH PROVIDING CIVIL LEGAL REFERENCE, AND I FULLY EXPECT TO SEE QUITE A RANGE ACROSS THE
SPECTRUM, AND GLAD TO SEE PEOPLE ARE NOT FEELING SHY ABOUT SAYING I'M NOT AT ALL EXPERIENCED.
BECAUSE, REALLY, BASICALLY, THAT IS WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR AND WITH A WE ARE DEVELOPING TRAINING
PROGRAMS FOR, IS BEING ABLE TO EXPAND YOUR EXPERIENCE ON THIS REALLY IMPORTANT TOPIC.
WOW, GREAT.
OKAY, I'M REALLY VERY HAPPY TO SEE SO MANY ENERGETIC MARKS IN THE I'M NOT AT ALL EXPERIENCED, SO
YOU'RE IN THE RIGHT PLACE.
AND, I'M GOING TO ASK YOU, WITHHOLD YOUR ANNOTATIONS AND LET US JUST DIVE IN TO WITH A WE'RE HERE
TO TALK ABOUT.
THE JUSTICE GAP IS A BROAD AND DEEP TOPIC.
I WANT TO BE CLEAR WHAT WE'RE FOCUSING ON HERE IS ON CIVIL LEGAL JUSTICE, SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE
DEVELOPING INTO THE CRIMINAL LEGAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, THOUGH WE KNOW THAT IS RIFE WITH INJUSTICE, BUT
WE ARE DEFINING FOR THIS PURPOSE, THE JUSTICE GAP, AS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE CIVIL LEGAL NEEDS
OF LOW-INCOME AMERICANS AND THE RESOURCES AVAILABLE TO MEET THOSE NEEDS.
UNLIKE THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM, THERE IS NO GUARANTEE OF LEGAL REPRESENTATION IN CIVIL LEGAL
MATTERS.
THERE'S A REPORT THAT WAS ISSUED BY LSC IN 2017, MEASURING THE UNMET CIVIL LEGAL NEEDS OF
LOW-INCOME AMERICANS, AND THERE IS SOME REALLY FASCINATING STATISTICS, FASCINATING AND MAYBE
FRIGHTENING AT THE SAME TIME.
86% OF THE CIVIL LEGAL PROBLEMS REPORTED BY LOW-INCOME AMERICANS IN THE YEAR OF THAT STUDY RECEIVED
INADEQUATE OR NO LEGAL HELP.
SOME OTHER REALLY AND CRUCIAL FINDINGS IN THAT SAME YEAR OF 2017, 71% OF LOW-INCOME HOUSEHOLDS
EXPERIENCED AT LEAST ONE CIVIL LEGAL PROBLEM, WHICH IS REALLY AN INDICATOR OF HOW WIDESPREAD THIS
ISSUE IS.
PROBLEMS TYPICALLY INCLUDE DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, VETERAN'S BENEFITS, DISABILITY ACCESS, HOUSING
CONDITIONS, HEALTH CARE AND MANY MORE.
AND, ONE IN FOUR LOW-INCOME HOUSEHOLDS EXPERIENCED SIX OR MORE CIVIL LEGAL PROBLEMS.
SO, IT IS NOT AN EVENLY DISTRIBUTED SITUATION.
THAT'S 25% HAD MULTIPLE CIVIL LEGAL ISSUES.
AND, AS I SAID, IT IS AN UNEVENLY DISTRIBUTED REALITY THAT IMPACTS SOME COMMUNITIES MORE THAN
OTHERS, PARTICULARLY SENIORS, PERSONS WITH DISABILITIES, VETERANS, SO WHETHER YOU START LOOKING
MORE CLOSELY AT THE FINDINGS OF THIS REPORT, IS T IS CAREER THERE ARE KEY AREAS FOR ADDITIONAL
FOCUS.
THE JUSTICE GAP IS REALLY MUCH MORE THAN THE NUMBERS.
IT REALLY IS THE REAL PEOPLE BEHIND THE STATISTICS.
IT MIGHT BE A PARENT WHO IS FACING LOSING CUSTODY OF A CHILD WHO DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEIR OPTIONS
ARE, JUST KNOWS THEY CAN'T AFFORD TO HIRE A LAWYER, SO A VERY DISTRESSING SITUATION.
IT MIGHT BE A PERSON WHO IS STRUGGLING TO PAY MEDICAL BILLS AND IS FACED WITH EVICTION FOR FALLING
BEHIND ON RENT, ANOTHER DISTRESSING AND DESPERATE FEELING SITUATION.
OR IT MIGHT BE SOMEONE WHO CAN'T SEEM TO LAND A JOB, DUE TO A PRIOR CRIMINAL RECORD, AND DOESN'T
KNOW THAT SOMETHING COULD BE DONE ABOUT THAT.
SO, ALL OF THESE VERY HUMAN STORIES ARE BEHIND THE JUSTICE GAP, AND REALLY WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY IS
TO TALK ABOUT WHY LIBRARIES ARE SO IMPORTANT IN THIS CIVIL LEGAL JUSTICE LANDSCAPE.
PRIMARILY, LIBRARIES ARE TRUSTED COMMUNITY INSTITUTIONS, SO PEOPLE WHO MIGHT FEEL A STIGMA WALKING
INTO A GOVERNMENT BUILDING OR A LEGAL AID OFFICE FEEL COMFORTABLE WALKING INTO A LIBRARY.
THIS IS ESPECIALLY IMPORTANT IN SMALL COMMUNITIES WHERE PEOPLE ARE RECOGNIZED EASILY BECAUSE IT IS
A SMALL POPULATION.
AND, AS THE MANIFESTO SAYS, THE PUBLIC LIBRARY IS THE LOCAL CENTER OF INFORMATION.
YES.
LIBRARIES ARE A GATEWAY TO INFORMATION, PROVIDES RESOURCES, INFORMATION, MEETING A WIDE VARIETY OF
COMMUNITY NEEDS, LEGAL, CIVIL LEGAL INFORMATION BEING ONE OF THOSE IT ENTAIL AS HIGHER LEVEL OF
SENSITIVE INTERPERSONAL INTERACTIONS.
THE LIBRARY PERSON IS THERE TO EDUCATE WITHOUT PRESCRIBING OR THERE TO EDUCATE INTERACTIONS.
THE LIBRARY PERSON IS THERE TO EDUCATE WITHOUT THERE TO EDUCATE WITHOUT PRESCRIBING OR ADVISING SPECIFIC WITH PEOPLE.
I THINK YOU'VE BECOME VERY GOOD AT READING PEOPLE AT SORT OF TALKING THROUGH WHERE THEY'RE COMING
FROM AND GETTING TO UNDERSTAND MORE DEEPLY THE ISSUES THAT ARE CRUCIAL IN THEIR LIVES SO ALL OF
THESE MAKE PUBLIC LIBRARIANS, ALL LIBRARIANS, FIT INTO THIS CIVIL LEGAL LANDSCAPE.
I HOPE WE HAVE LUIS' AUDIO WORKING BECAUSE WE REALLY WOULD LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT HIS EXPERIENCE ON THE
FRONT LINES AS REFERENCE LIBRARIAN.
>> CAN YOU HEAR NEAR NOW?
>> I CAN HEAR YOU, LUIS.
TAKE AWAY.
>> GREAT, THANK YOU.
WE DID AN AUDIO CHECK AND IT IS WORK FINE 30 MINUTES AGO, BUT NOW I'M ON THE PHONE.
MY NAME IS LUIS INTERIANO.
I'M THE REFERENCE LIBRARIAN IN BATON ROUGE, LOUISIANA.
I AM A SECOND CAREER LIARIAN, CAME FROMMER 50 AREAS AND I'VE NOT HAD ANY LEGAL REFERENCE TRAINING
EXEMPT FOR A GENERAL COURSE, ONE SECTION WAS LEGAL REFERENCE AND THE OTHER ONE MEDICAL REFERENCE,
SO VERY LITTLE LEGAL TRAINING WHEN I CAME INTO THIS JOB IN FEBRUARY OF 2010.
FIRST I FELT SOME FEAR BECAUSE I DID NOT KNOW EXACTLY WHERE TO GO, WHAT SOURCES, YOU KNOW, I HADS
AAUTHORITATIVE SOURCES BOOKMARKED BUT I HAD NEVER DONE THAT KIND OF REFERENCE BEFORE.
MY PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE WAS LIBRARY ASSOCIATE DOING OTHER PROGRAMS.
THIS SEEMED LIKE A VERY IMPORTANT AREA FOR ME TO DEAL WITH, ESPECIALLY LIKE PEOPLE WERE COMING,
LIKE HE WE JUST TALK ABOUT I'M ONE OF THE PREMARY STOPS PEOPLE GO TO WHEN THEY HAVE NO INFORMATION
WHERE ELSE TO IF.
THEY DON'T WANT TO WALK INTO COURT, THEY DON'T HAVE NOUN GO STRAIGHT TO THE LAWYER'S OFFICE SO THEY
COME TO THE LIBRARY TO SEE WHAT THE NEXT STEP SYSTEM FORTUNATELY, THIS LIBRARY IS SUBSCRIBESSED TO
GALE DATABASE OF LEGAL FORMS.
WE HAVE LOUISIANA FORMS BECAUSE IN OUR STATE IT IS BASED ON THE NAPOLEONIC CODE OPPOSED TO THE
ENGLISH CODE, WHAT THE OTHER 48 STATES ARE BASED ON YOU CAN WE HAVE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE LOUISIANA
LEGAL DATABASE AND THAT WAS ONE OF MY FIRST TOOLS IN LEGAL REFERENCE, KNOWING WHAT FORMS ARE
AVAILABLE.
BUT, I ALSO HAD TO MAKE A DISTINCTION AND DISCLAIMER TO LET PEOPLE KNOW THAT I AM NOT A TRAINED
LEGAL PROFESSIONAL.
I CAN PULL UP 67 FORMS ON WHAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR BY CAN'T TELL THEM WHICH ONE EXACTLY THE RIGHT
ONE.
I HAD TO WALK A VERY FINE LINE BETWEEN WHICH OF PEOPLE ASKING ME WHICH OF THESE IS THE ONE TO USE
AND I WOULD ALWAYS TRY PRINTED SOMETHING TO HAVE THEM GO HOME WITH SOMETHING THEY CAN USE BUT
ALWAYS WITH A DISCLAIMER THAT THEY NEED CHECK WITH THEIR LEGAL PROFESSIONAL.
SO, I FOUND OTHER AUTHORITATIVE LEGAL WEBSITES,S BE FOR INSTANCE OUR LOCAL CITY AND PARISH COASTEDS
ARE ON THE MUNICCODE.COM WEBSITE, SEEMS TO BE THE DEFAULT FOR SMALL MUNICIPALITIES THAT DON'T HOST
THEIR OWN LEGAL REFERENCE.
AND THE LOUISIANA STATE LURK -- LEGISLATURE HAS A WEBSITE.
WE WOULD BUY NINE VOLUMES TO KEEP UP WITH, THAT WAS PRETTY EXPENSIVE, AND NOW EVERYTHING IS ON LEAN
FOR FREE THERE IS THE TECHNICAL BARRIER THAT PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN TO SEARCH ONLINE OR HAVE ME
SEARCH FOR THEM.
AID LOT TO LEARN ABOUT A REFERENCE INTERVIEW WITH PATRONS BECAUSE THEY WERE SOMETIMES DEALING WITH
PERSONAL MATTERS.
SOMETIMES IT WAS HOW I DO SELL AN AUTO, AUTO BILL OF SALE, SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN THIS WEBINAR
LITERATURE POSTED ON THE WEBSITE NOW IS ONE OF THE MOST MEMORABLE EXPERIENCED I HAD WITH HELPING A
YOUNG FEMALE PATRON WHO CAME IN ASKING FOR INFORMATION ON CUSTODY, SPECIFICALLY SHE HAD A YOUNG
TODDLER DAUGHTER AND HER EX-BOYFRIEND WAS PLANNING TO TAKE UP THE -- SHE WAS VERY MUCH AFRAID OF
THAT.
THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I HAD DEALT WITH ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE, SO I STARTED SEARCHING THROUGH THE
FORMS AND FOUND THE INFORMATION ON CUSTODY I COULD GIVE HER, JUST PRINTED OUT.
THEN MY NEXT STEP, PREVIOUSLY BOOKMARKED WAS IT THE PRO BONO ORGANIZATIONS GIVING LEGAL HELP.
USUALLY ONLY IN CIVIL SITUATIONS, NOT IN CRIMINAL SITUATIONS.
I BOOKMARKED THE SOUTHEAST LEGAL SERVICES IN BATON ROUGE, AND THE BATON ROUGE BAR ASSOCIATION AND
LOUISIANA STATE BAR ASSOCIATION, ALL THREE OF THOSE HAD CONTACTED ME PREVIOUSLY ABOUT SENDING AN
ATTORNEY A COUPLE OF TIMES A YEAR, ESPECIALLY IN OCTOBER, WHICH IS PRO BONO MONTH, THEY LIKE TO
SEND ATTORNEYS TO LIBRARIES TO CONDUCT SMALL LEGAL CLINICS TO GET HERING WHAT PEOPLE WANT TO DO AND
TELL THEM WHAT THE NEXT STEPS ARE.
THEY DON'T DO A LOT OF IN DEPTH SOLUTIONS HERE IN THE LIBRARY.
SO I GAVE THIS YOUNG LADY, WHO WAS LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ON CUSTODY, SOME OF THE FORMS I COULD
PRINT OUT, ALL THE CONTACT INFORMATION TO ALL THREE ORGANIZATIONS AND SHE BASICALLY, THAT'S ALL I
COULD DO FOR HER AT THAT POINT.
I DIDN'T KNOW HOW MUCH GOOD I HAD DONE BUT WEEKS LATER, MAYBE A MONTH OR TWO LATER SHE CAME BACK
FOR OTHER LIBRARY REASONS AND STARTED TELLING ME SHE HAD BEEN SUCCESSFUL IN HAVING HER EX-BOYFRIEND
STOP THREATENING TO TAKE CUSTODY OF HER DAUGHTER SIMPLY BECAUSE HE NOW KNEW SHE HAD ACCESS TO ALL
THESE LEGAL FORMS FOR FREE AT THE LIBRARY, EXEMPT FOR THE PRINTING AT 10-CENT AS PAGE, SHE HAD
ACCESS TO THE LOCAL PRO BONO ORGANIZATIONS, SHE HAD CONTACTED AT LEAST ONE OF THOSE, SO HE KNEW NOW
THAT SHE HAD A PLACE TO GO TO LOOK FOR LEGAL INFORMATION SHE DID NOT HAVE BEFORE AND THAT WAS
THE LIBRARY.
I DIDN'T SOLVE HER PROBLEM, I GAVE HER INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT POSSIBLE HER NEXT STEP MIGHT BE, SO
THAT SEEMED TO BE SOMETHING THAT HAD A GREAT EFFECT ON HER LIFE.
SHE STOPPED BEING AS AFRAID AS SHE HAD BEEN BEFORE.
WHEN SHE FIRST CAME TO ME, SHE WAS VERY AFRAID SO IT GAVE ME AN INSIGHT HOW TO YOU LIBRARIES CAN
AFFECT THE LIVES OF PATRONS SIMPLY WITH THE INFORMATION WE GIVE THEM AND WE DON'T HAVE TO SOLVE THE
ENTIRE PROBLEM FOR THEM SIMPLY TO GIVE THEM WHAT THE NEXT STEP IS AND THEY CAN THEN HELP THEMSELVES
SOFT MY PROCEDURE HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO CONDUCT A REFERENCE INTERVIEW, USE A GREAT DEAL OF TACT
BECAUSE I AM IN A SMALL, RURAL PARISH, SMALL TOWN OF 3,000 PEOPLE AND THE 10 YEARS I'VE BEEN HERE,
I'VE BECOME PERSONAL FRIENDS WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE SO I HAVE TO WALK A FINE LINE BETWEEN ASKING
QUESTIONS THAT ARE A REFERENCE INTERVIEW AND NOT STRAIGHT OUT ASKING SO WHAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE,
YOU KNOW.
I HAVE TO AVOIDED GETTING TO TOO MUCH DETAIL.
HE GET JUST ENOUGH DETAIL TO RESEARCH A FORM OR A CONTACT AND AVOIDED TRYING TO GET TOO MUCH DETAIL
BECAUSE I KNOW THESE PEOPLE AND I WILL SEE THEM AT THE GROCERY STORE LATER AND I DON'T WANT THEM TO
FEEL SHY COMING TO THE LIBRARY OR ME KNOWING A LOT OF THEIR SITUATION.
I WANT TO KEEP A PROFESSIONAL DISTANCE THAT HELPS THEM, TOO.
MY SECOND TO LAST STEP IS ASK PATRONS THE E-MAIL ADDRESS SO I CAN SEND THEM LINKS TO RESOURCES.
A LOT OF PEOPLE MAY NOT HAVE A COMPUTER AT HOME.
JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY SEEMS TO HAVE A PHONE SO I MAKE SURE THEY HAVE E-MAIL ACCESS TO THEIR PHONE
AND I SEND THEM LINKS SO THEY CAN LOOK UP INFORMATION AT THEIR HOME AND THAT EXTENDS THE LIBRARY
SERVICE BEYOND THE HOURS THAT WE ARE OPEN.
AND I REMIND THEM THEY CAN USE OUR COMPUTERS FOR THROUGH, THAT IS VERY IMPORTANT.
THEY CAN ACCESS THE E-MAIL WEB LINKS ON THEIR PHONES AND I DEEP ETCH CLASSES ON BASIC COMPUTER AND
WEB SKILLS THREE TIMES A WEEK, FROM HOW TO TURN ON A COMPUTER AND USE A MOUSE TO CREATING DOCUMENTS
AND WEB SURFING.
MY NEXT STEP IS TO DIRECT PATRONS TO THE LOCAL PROFESSIONALS WHO DO PRO BONO WORK.
FORTUNATELY, THE ORGANIZATIONS WERE VERY, VERY PROACTIVE IN THE BEGIN, IN CONTACTING ME SEND
ATTORNEYS, AND SINCE THEN WE HAVE TEA ACTUALLY GOTTEN THEM TO COME, LAST YEAR THEY WERE COMING ONCE
A MONTH THIS YEAR IT IS BACK TO ONCE EVERY OTHER MONTH BECAUSE THEIR SCHEDULE DID NOT ALLOW.
SO I'M GETTING DOWN MY TWO MINUTE MARK WHERE I HAVE TO LEAVE TIME FOR QUESTIONS.
I'VE SPOKEN A LOT QUICKLY WITH A LOT OF INFORMATION TO CONVEY SO I'M GOING TO LEAVE THE LAST 2 1/2
MINUTES FOR QUESTIONS, IF ANYBODY HAS ONE.
>> THANK YOU, LUIS.
AND THERE IS A LOT OF EXCHANGING OF INFORMATION GOING MONTH CHAT, WHICH IS WONDERFUL AND I THINK
ONE THING THAT IS F IT IS NOT ALREADY OBVIOUS IS COMING OBVIOUS TO PEOPLE RESOURCES ARE STATE
SPECIFIC AND EASTERN LOCAL SPECIFIC, SO IT IS GREAT TO HAVE RESOURCES SHARED IN CHAT BUT IT IS
GOING TO BE DIFFERENT FINDING WHERE YOU ARE.
NO SPECIFIC QUESTIONS BUT I APPRECIATE HEARING YOUR JOURNEY, FROM NO EXPERIENCE TO NOW HAVING A
LEVEL OF COMFORT AND IN PARTICULAR THE SORT OF SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES OF BEING A LIBRARIAN IN A
SMALL COMMUNITY AND HAVING THAT EXTRA SENSITIVE ITSELF, AND I THINK WHAT I LIKE MOST ABOUT YOUR
STORY AND THERE WAS A LYNX POSTED IN CHAT, YOU CAN READ MORE ABOUT LUIS' STORY AND HE WILL BE
PUBLISHING MORE BUT IT IS REALLY A MATTER OF HELPING PEOPLE FEEL EMPOWERED TO MOVE FORWARD.
>> I SEE A QUESTION SOMEONE IS ASKING, WHAT DO YOU SAY WHEN THEY ASK WHAT FORM YOU USE?
>> IF YOU TYPE IN CUSTODY, SOME ARE VERY SPECIFIC, YOU SAY WHEN THEY ASK WHAT FORM YOU USE?
>> I TRY TO GET THE PATRON TO PICK THE TOP THREE, I PRINTED THE TOP THREE FOR THEM.
THEN I SAY I CANNOT RECOMMEND WHICH ONE BECAUSE I AM NOT A LEGAL PROFESSIONAL.
IF IT IS IS NOT ONE OF THESE, COME BACK AND GET THE ONE.
 RIGHT ONE.
>> EXCELLENT RESPONSE.
IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, I'M GOING TO MOVE TOP CATHERINE MCGUIRE, BUT LUIS DUE EARN THE QUESTIONS
IN CHAT, THERE IS A QUESTION ABOUT HOW YOU MANAGE THE LAWYER IN THE LIBRARY PROGRAM.
>> AND I'M GOING TO POST MY E-MAIL ADDRESS, IF ANYONE WANTS TO E-MAIL ME, ALSO, BUT I'M GOING TO
ANSWER IN CHAT.
>> VERY GENEROUS OF YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH, LUIS.
>> THANKS.
>> NOW WE WILL MOVE ON TO HEARING FROM CATHERINE.
TAKE IT AWAY.
>> HI.
I HOPE EVERYBODY CAN HEAR ME JUST FINE.
NO SOUND PROBLEMS.
>> YOU SOUND GREAT.
>> GREAT.
SO I AM CATHERINE, I AM HERE TO TALK TO YOU A BIT ABOUT LEGAL REFERENCE FROM SORT OF AN UMBRELLA
PERSPECTIVE.
FOR PEOPLE WHO WORK IN A GENERAL PUBLIC LIBRARY, AND THAT'S KIND HOW MUCH THEY SLIT US, I'M A
SPECIALIST THAT WORK IN A LAW LIBRARY, A LOT OF YOU ARE GENERALLESTS AND YOU RESPOND QUESTIONS FROM
A WHOLE RANGE OF TOPICS.
I'M HERE TO TELL YOU IT IS NOT THAT DIFFERENT.
ANSWERING LAW QUESTIONS OR HOMEWORK QUESTIONS, CHECK STREET QUESTIONS, EXERCISE QUESTIONS, READERS
ADVISORY.
IT IS VERY MUCH A MATTER OF BEING COMFORTABLE IN YOUR OWN SKIN AND KNOWING SOME RESOURCES THAT CAN
YOU CONSULT.
I, MYSELF, AM, AS I SAID LURK LIBRARIAN AND I'VE BEEN IN THIS FIELD OVER TWO DECADES AT THIS POINT,
ALMOST THREE.
BUT I CAME TO IT WITH NO ACTUAL PROFESSIONAL LAW EDUCATION.
I HAVE A MASTERS IN LIBRARY SCIENCE SO I AM A FULL-FLEDGED LIBRARIAN BUT I DIDN'T GO TO LAW SCHOOL,
I DON'T HAVE A PARALEGAL CERTIFICATE, IFS LEARNED THIS JUST THROUGH TIME AND EXPERIENCE.
WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO BUILD A FOUNDATION OF KNOWLEDGE TO DEAL WITH REFERENCE, SOME CRITICAL THINGS
TO HAVE ARE TIME AND EXPOSURE AND EXPERIENCE AND THOSE OBVIOUSLY ARE NOT SOMETHING YOU CAN GET
QUICKLY BUT DO THEY BUILD, SO ANY CHANCE YOU GET TO EXPOSE YOURSELF TO LEGAL INFORMATION, RESOURCES
AND STRUCTURE, THEN GRAB IT AND LEARN FROM THAT.
THE BIGGEST COMPONENT IN BEING ABLE TO MANAGE LEGAL REFERENCE QUESTIONS IS REALLY A MATTER OF
SELF-EDUCATION.
IF OUT AND PURSUE THE INFORMATION THAT YOU WARRANT TO BE ABLE TO PASS ON -- YOU WANT TO BE ABLE TO
PASS ON.
SO WHEN YOU ARE DEALING WITH CIVIL LEGAL MATTERS, BETHA GAVE A GOOD DESCRIPTIONS OF QUESTION US
MEET GET IN A PUBLIC LIBRARY.
GENERAL LOW THE ONES YOU GET MOST OFTEN ARE IN LARGE TOPICAL AREAS, FAMILY LAW, DIVORCE AND CHILD
SUPPORT AND CUSTODY, VISITATION, GUARDIANSHIPS PARK TERNITY.
WE GET A LOT OF PATERNITY QUESTIONS.
THEY ALL FALL UNDER A GENERAL UMBRELLA OF FAMILY LAW.
THE NEXT BIGGEST ONE WE GET ARE PROBABLY LAND LORD TENANT QUESTIONS.
WE GET IT FROM BOTH SIDES.
THERE ARE LAND LORD QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THERE COULD BE A LEGAL SOLUTION, JUST AS MUCH AS TENANTS,.
TO TENANTS NOT PAYING RENT AND LAND LORDS NOT FIXING PROPERTY.
YOU GET A HIGH VOLUME OF QUESTIONS IN THOSE.
AND THAT CAN INCLUDE ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS, LIKE COLLECTION AGENCIES CALL AT ALL HOURS,
PEOPLE WHO HAVE A GARNISHMENT PLACED ON THEIR WAGES SO THEY HAVE HAVING A PORTION OF THEIR WAGES
TAKEN OUT REGULARLY AND THEY WANT TO KNOW HOW TO MANAGE THAT.
THERE ARE EMPLOYMENT QUESTIONS THAT WILL WALK IN YOUR DOOR.
SOMEONE WHO HAS A CONTRACT TO COMPLETE A JOB AND THEN DIDN'T GET PAID.
SOMEBODY WHO HAS LOST THEIR JOB AND WANTS TO GET UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITSES OR HAVE BEEN DENIED
UNEMPLOYMENT BENEFITS MUCH THESE ARE ALL SITUATIONS THAT MAY HAVE A SOLUTION UNDER THE LAW THAT YOU
CAN HELP PROVIDE INFORMATION TO.
THEY ALL OFTEN SPIRAL INTO ONE ANOTHER, SO THEY OFTEN DON'T HAPPEN ALL BY THEMSELVES, THERE IS
USUALLY A CIRCULAR ACTIVITY GOING ON.
FRIENDS IN A DIVORCE SITUATION, CHILD SUPPORT NAY BE ESTABLISHED, ONE PARENT WHO IS SUPPOSED TO BE
GETTING CHILD SUPPORT ISN'T RECEIVING PAYMENTS AND THEY CAN'T MAKE RENT PAYMENTS AND GET AN
EVICTION NOTICE AND HAVE MULTIPLE ISSUES AND OFTEN NOT THE NOUN ADDRESS THEM.
>> KEEP IN MIND, WHEN PEOPLE COME IN WITH QUESTIONS ABOUT LAW THAT THEY ARE ASKING YOU ABOUT AN
AREA THAT HAS A VERY FORMAL AND STRUCTURED LANGUAGE.
THIS IS ONE OF THE FIRST CHALLENGES YOU GET WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH LEGAL REFERENCE.
THE LANGUAGE THE PEOPLE USE WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THE LAW IS VERY SPECIFIC TO THAT AREA AND THE
WORDS OFTEN WILL HAVE MEANINGS TO PEOPLE IN THAT FIELD, BUT REFERENCE.
THE LANGUAGE THE PEOPLE USE WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT THE LAW IS VERY SPECIFIC TO THAT AREA AND THE
WORDS OFTEN WILL HAVE MEANINGS TO PEOPLE IN ARE ALL
WORDS THAT HAVE MEANING FOR LAW BUT MEAT BE UNFAMILIAR TO YOU SO IT IS VERY STRONGLY RECOMMENDED IF
YOU HAVE ANY LIKELIHOOD ABOUT A QUESTION ABOUT LAW WALK IN YOUR DOOR YOU KEEP AT HAND SOME KIND OF
A REFERENCE FOR THAT VOCABULARY.
SOMETIMES JUST FINDING OUT THE MEANING OF A WORD YOU DIDN'T KNOW WILL HELP GUIDE TO YOU THAT TOPIC
AND RESOURCES THAT CAN HELP THE PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU.
WE TALKED A BIT ALREADY ABOUT PEOPLE WITH LEGAL PROBLEMS HAVING A LOT OF FEAR AND INSECURITY IN
THEIR WORLD.
LEGAL REFERENCE INTERACTIONS HAVE VERY TENSE INTERPERSONAL DYNAMICS POSSIBLE BUT A LEGAL ISSUES
HAVE VERY SIGNIFICANT CONSEQUENCES FOR PEOPLE.
THERE IS A LOT OF NEGATIVE EMOTIONS INVOLVED IN LEGAL REFERENCE.
SOMEONE WALKS IN AND THEY ARE AFRAID, THEY FEEL TRAPPED, THEY FEEL LIKE THEY'RE OUT OF CONTROL,
THEY HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE, THEY ARE SEA VERY IGNORANT OF THE SITUATION THEY'RE IN.
THEY FEEL UNHEARD, THEY'VE BEEN HEARING NO FROM SO MANY PEOPLE, I CAN'T HELP.
THEY COME TO YOU AND THEY ARE VERY UP SET.
ONE OF THE BIGGER COMPONENTS IN QUESTIONS ABOUT LAW THAT IS NOT PRESENT IN THE MOST COMMON PARALLEL
WHICH IS HEALTH AND MEDICAL QUESTIONS IS ANGER.
PEOPLE ARE OFTEN VERY, VERY ANGRY THAT THE SITUATION HAS HAPPENED TO THEM, AND THAT HELPS SPIRAL
THE NEGATIVE EMOTIONS, THEY GET VERY HIGH.
THEY ARE AT RISK OF LOSING A HOUSE, A CHILD, EMPLOYMENT, THEIR ENTIRE LIFE STABILITY SO THEY STAND
THERE IN FRONT OF YOU ARRANGE EQUALLY ON OUR SIDE OF IT THE STAFF HAVE NEGATIVE EMOTIONS IN THIS
INTERACTION.
WE ARE AFRAID OF TELLING SOMEBODY SOMETHING WE SHOULDN'T.
THERE ARE IS IN SECURITY BECAUSE IT MAY BE SOMETHING WE DON'T KNOW AND WE CAN'T PROVIDE AS MUCH AS
WE WOULD LIKE TO PROVIDE.
IT IS IMPORTANT FOR US TO BE AWARE THOSE NEGATIVE EMOTIONS MAY IMPACT THE INTERACTION AND TO TRY TO
MANAGE THOSE INTO A MORE POSITIVE ATTITUDE WITH THAT INTERSECTION.
IT IS LESS IMPORTANT, REALLY, TO GIVE THEM WHAT THEY THINK THEY NEED AND MUCH MORE FORM HELP THEM
FEEL THAT THEY WILL BE ABLE TO MANAGE THEIR SITUATION.
HOW YOU ADDRESS THE PATRON WITH THEIR INTERACTION, ACTUALLY MATTERS AND HELPS TO IMPACT HOW THE
INTERACTION PROCEEDS.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE REALLY PUSHED A LOT OVER THE LAST DECADE OR TWO I FEEL VERY STRONGLY
ABOUT THIS IDEA THAT IN MOST LIBRARIES WHEN A PATRON WALKS IN, THEY'RE LOOKING FOR AN ANSWER TO A
QUESTION.
WHEN A PATRON WALKS INTO A LIBRARY WITH A LAW QUESTION, WHAT THEY NEED IS A RESPONSE, NOT AN
ANSWER.
WE CANNOT ANSWER THEIR QUESTIONS DIRECTLY, BUT WE CAN RESPOND WITH ASSISTANCE WITH RESOURCES.
WE CAN RESPOND WITH HELP IN A SITUATION THAT THEY HAVE NOT GOTTEN HELP IN.
I THINK AN OUT FLOWING FROM THIS IS A NEED TO FOCUS ON WHAT IT IS THAT WE CAN DO, AS INFORMATION
PROFESSIONALS, WE HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC SKILL SET AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO IS HELP
CONNECT PEOPLE TO INFORMATION.
AND, IF WE CAN PRESENT THAT TO PEOPLE AS A POSITIVE, THEN THE FACT THAT WE CANNOT PROVIDE LEGAL
ADVICE GETS, IS LESS IMPORTANT.
SO I FOCUS VERY MUCH ON WHAT WE CAN DO FOR THE PATRON RATHER THAN WHAT WE CANNOT.
I DO STRONGLY RECOMMEND THAT PEOPLE SCRIPT OUT SOME PRACTICE LANGUAGE FOR THEMSELVES SO THAT WHEN
THEY ARE IN A PATRON INTERACTION THEY ARE FEELING TENSE BECAUSE THE PEA REASON TO IS ANGRY OR IS
SCARED -- PATRON IS ANGRY OR SCARED AND WE WANT TO HELP, IF YOU DISCREPANCY YOUR LANGUAGE A BIT, IT
BECOMES LIKE MUSCLE MEMORY AND EASY TO USE IN A TENSE SITUATION.
I WRITE OUT, AND IT SOUNDS MORE FORMAL WHEN YOU SCRIPT, IT OF COURSE, I CAN HELP YOU LOCATE TERMS
LIKE WEBSITES AND BEAKS THAT MIGHT GIVE YOU A BETTER IDEA GO B THIS TOPIC.
I CAN SHOW YOU HOW TO USE OUR DATA BASES OVER WEBSITES TO FIND MORE INFORMATION YOUR TOPIC.
I CAN HELP CONNECT TO YOU AGENCIES OR CLINICS OR ORGANIZATIONS YOU MAY BE ABLE TO GET ASSISTANCE
FROM A LAWYER FOR FREE OR LOW COST.
THESE ARE ALL POSITIVES.
I CAN DO THIS FOR YOU, I CAN HELP, HE HAD INDICATE AND IT GIVE AS VERY POSITIVE FEEL TO THAT
INTERACTION.
S I SAID, IF YOU PRACTICE IT, IF YOU ARE UNDER STRESS IN AN INTERACTION THAT POSITIVE LANGUAGE WILL
THROW OUT AUTOMATICALLY, GIVE US A LITTLE BIT OF A BREATHER TO THINK ABOUT YOUR RESOURCES AND GET
YOUR PATRON TO RELAX A LITTLE BIT MORE WITH A POSITIVE SPIN ON THAT INTERACTION.
I ALSO TELL PEOPLE, JUST FLAT OUT, ADMIT TO IGNORANCE.
IT IS OKAY.
YOU DON'T HAVE TO KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT EVERYTHING.
SOMETIMES I GET A QUESTION I KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING BAN I WILL FRANKLY ADMIT THAT.
BECAUSE KNOWING THE INFORMATION ISN'T MY SKILL SET, MY SKILL SET IS BEING ABLE TO FIND IT THEY ASK
A QUESTION THAT IS STRANGE TO ME, I SAY I'VE NOT HEARD OF THAT BEFORE, THAT IS A TOPIC THAT IS NEW
TO ME BUT WE MEET HAVE MATERIALS THAT MEET HELP TELL BUT IT SO LET'S SEE WHAT WE CAN FIND OUT.
THAT GIVE AS NICE, POSITIVE SPIN TO THE INTERACTION.
THAT BRINGS US TO I KNOW AS A CONCERN FOR ALL OF US AS INFORMATION PROFESSIONALS AND THAT IS THE
DIVIDE BETWEEN LEGAL INFORMATION AND LEGAL ADVICE.
WE ALL KNOW WE CAN'T GIVE LEGAL ADVICE AND IF WE GO BACK TO THE CAN, I SAY I CANNOT PROVIDE LEGAL
ADVICE UNLESS THEY REALLY PUSH ME TO IT AND DIRECT THEM BACK TO THAT LEGAL INFORMATION THING.
WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN INFORMATION AND ADVICE?
I WILL TELL YOU IT IS A VERY FUZZY LINE.
IT IS HARD SOMETIMES TO TELL YOU WHAT MIGHT BE SAYING THAT COULD BE OKAY OR NOT OKAY.
NOT EVERYBODY IN OUR FIELD ACTUALLY FULLY AGREES ABOUT WHERE THAT LINE IS, STRATEGICALLY SPEAKING.
I LIKE TO THINK OF IT AND I THINK IT IS VERY HELPFUL TO THINK OF IT THIS WAY.
AS A QUESTION ABOUT WHO HAS THE POWER OF THE DECISION MAKING IN THIS SITUATION.
WITH LEGAL ADVICE, IF YOUR STAFF SAYS SOMETHING DEFINITIVE OR YOU SAY SOMETHING DEFINITIVE, THAT'S
PROBABLY ADVICE.
IF YOU'RE GOING FOR A MORE GENERAL COUCHING OF TERMS, THAT IS MORE LIKELY TO BE INFORMATION.
AS AN EXAMPLE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE IN THE DEFINITIVE VERSES NOT, SAY YOU HAVE A FRIEND WHO WALK
INTO THE LIBRARY AND SAYS I WANT TO FILE A SMALL CLAIM, CAN YOU TELL ME HOW I WOULD DO THAT?
IF SOMEBODY IS SAYING, TWO FILE A SMALL CLAIM, YOU FILL OUT A COMPLAINT FORM AND YOU TAKE IT DOWN
TO THE COURTHOUSE AND I FILE IT WITH THE CLERK'S OFFICE, THOSE ARE DEFINITIVE STATEMENTS.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS TAKING THE DECISION MAKING INTO YOUR OWN HANDS AND JUST GIVING THEM A RESULT
THAN'S NOT WHAT LEGAL REFERENCE REALLY DOES.
LEGAL REFERENCE GIVES THEM INFORMATION HOW TO FILE A SMALL CLAIM, A BROCHURE FROM A COURT OR LEGAL
CLINIC THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO PROVIDE ASSISTANCE AND EXPLAINS THE STEPS AND SOME DECISIONS THAT
MIGHT NEED TO BE MADE ALONG THE WAY.
THE PATRON MAKES THE DECISION ABOUT HOW TO PROCEED SO YOU'VE PUT THE DECISION MAKING POWER INTO
THEIR HANDS.
THAT WOULD BE LEGAL INFORMATION.
SOMETIMES IT HELPS, I WILL SAY SOMETIMES IT IS STILL HARD TO TELL.
OFTEN, WHEN A PATRON COMES IN LOOKING FOR INFORMATION RELATED TO THE LAW, THEY COUNCILMEMBER THEIR
QUESTION IN TERMS THAT MAKE IT SOUND EXACTLY LIKE THEY'RE LOOKING FOR ADVICE.
THEY SAY THINGS LIKE, IS IT LEGAL FOR ME TO DO X, Y AND Z.
CAN I OR SHOULD I ARE BIG STARTS TO QUESTIONS THAT RESULT IN US GETTING TENSE AND SAYING, NO, THAT
WOULD BE ADVICE IF I REALLY DIRECTLY RESPOND TO THAT.
SO LISTEN TO THE QUESTION CAREFULLY, THINK ABOUT WHAT THEY HAVE SAID, HOW THEY HAVE PHRASED IT AND
WHAT IS THAT CORE INFORMATION THAT THEY'RE LOOKING FOR.
PULL THAT CORE OUT AND REPHRASE THE QUESTION BACK TO THEM AS A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION ABOUT THAT
TOPIC.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, IF A PATRON WALKS IN AND SAYS, IS IT LEGAL FOR ME TO LEAVE MY 10-YEAR-OLD CHILD
HOME ALONE, ON THE FACE, IT, YOU CANNOT RESPOND YES OR NO.
THAT IS LEGAL ADVICE.
BUT YOU CAN LOOK AT THEIR QUESTION AND SAY, OKAY, I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE LOOKING FOR INFORMATION ABOUT
WHAT THE LAW MIGHT SAY ABOUT YOU BE ATTENDED CHIRP AND YOU CAN PURSUE THAT AS AN INFORMATION
REQUEST.
WHEN YOU GO OUT LOOKING FOR LAW, THAT CAN BE QUITE COMPLICATESSED BECAUSE LAW COMES IN MANY, MANY
STORMS IS STRONGLY RECOMMENDED YOU GET, IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE, BASIC FOUNDATION IN CIVICS SO
UNDERSTAND HOW YOUR GOVERNMENT IS STRUCTURED WHO MAKES THE LAWS, WHICH ENTITIES MAKE THE LAWS AND
WHAT THOSE LAWS LOOK LIKE WHEN THEY'RE PUBLISHED.
YOU MIGHT WANT TO GO AND HUNTED DOWN ON OPPORTUNITY, SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, THE SCHOOLHOUSE ROCK VIDEO
WITH THE THREE RING CIRCUS THAT DAWES BEAUTIFUL STRIPPED DOWN BASIC CONCEPT OF GOVERNMENT
INSTITUTIONS.
THERE IS THE CIVIC EDUCATION YOU CAN FIND ON THE WEBSITES, I WILL LIKE WHEN I DO BASIC COMPONENTS
ON CIVICS TRAINING.
IT IS HELPFUL.
KEEP IN MIND THAT LAW IS MADE ON SEVERAL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT IT COMES FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT,
STATE GOVERNMENT AND LOCAL, COUNTY OR MUNICIPAL GOVERNMENTS AND IT IS MADE IN EXECUTIVE,
LEGISLATIVE AND JUDICIAL.
NOT ALL LEVELS HAVE ALL BRANCHES, BUT ALL LEVELS AND BRANCHES MAKE SOME FORM OF LAW.
OFTEN IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION ABOUT LAW WILL NEED YOU TO LOOK AT MORE THAN ONE LEVEL OR BRANCH.
THAT CAN GET PRETTY COMPLICATED AND RESULT IN YOU LOOKING IN MULTIPLE PLACES.
I WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A MOMENT HERE TO MENTION VERY BRIEFLY IT IS VERY, VERY IMPORTANT IF YOU ARE
USING FREE SOURCES FOR LAW THROUGH THE INTERNET THAT YOU KNOW HOW TO EVALUATE A WEBSITE CAREFULLY
FOR ITS RELIABILITY.
THERE ARE MANY, MANY RESOURCES OUT THERE ABOUT LAW AND NOT ALL OF THEM ARE AS UP-TO-DATE, AS
RELIABLE, AS UNBIASED AS THEY SHOULD BE.
SO TAKE A LOOK AT WHAT IS NEEDED TO EVALUATE A GOOD ONLINE SOURCE FOR LAW.
FOR EXAMPLE, THE AALL PROVIDE AS GUIDE TO EVALUATE LEGAL INFORMATION ON ITS WEBSITE AND THAT CAN BE
HELP ENVELOPE UNDERSTANDING WHAT FACTORS YOU NIGHT TO LOOK AT WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT FREE
INFORMATION ON THE WEB.
SO BECAUSE WE'VE JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW LOOKING FOR LAW CAN BE QUITE COMPLICATED, ALL THOSE
BRANCHES, ALL THOSE LEVELS, ALL THAT STUFF, I THINK MOST OF THE TIME THE BEST PLACE TO START WHEN
YOU ARE RESPONDING TO A REQUEST FOR INFORMATION ABOUT LAW IS IN A SECONDARY SOURCE.
SECONDARY SOURCES MAKE EXCELLENT STARTING POINTS FOR MANY TOPICS, NOT JUST LAW.
THEY DESCRIBE LAW IN EVERY DAY ACCESSIBLE LANGUAGE, WORDS THAT YOU AND I WOULD USE IN A NORMAL
CONVERSATION AND A GOOD SECONDARY SOURCE WILL POINT YOU SPECIFICALLY TO THE PRIMARY LAW WHERE THEY
GET THAT INFORMATION THAT DESCRIPTIVE INFORMATION.
IF SOMEONE REALLY WANTS TO KNOW THE FOOT THAT REQUIRE AS SECONDARY LOSSER CITE TO THAT BUT THEY ARE
SO MUCH EASIER TO JUST START WITH THERE ARE MULTIPLE EXCELLENT FREE RESOURCES THAT ARE SECONDARY IN
NATURE THAT YOU CAN GET TO TWO OF MY FAVORITES FOR STATE INFORMATION IS LAWHEALTH.ORG AND I'VE SEEN
A COUPLE THINGS POPPING UP THROUGH THIS THAT INDICATE THAT MANY OF YOU ARE AWARE OF THIS AS A
RESOURCE.
LAWHEALTH.ORG IS AN INFORMATION WEBSITE THAT I BELIEVE IS CONSTRUCTED AND/OR SOMEHOW LEGAL SERVICES
CORPORATION HAS GOTTEN THAT GOING.
IT ALLOWS TO YOU GO IN AND LOOK AT SPECIFIC STATE INFORMATION THAT'S RELATED TO LAW AND IT WILL
HELP CONNECT PEOPLE LEGAL AID ORGANIZATIONS AND OTHER LEGAL SYSTEMS ORGANIZATIONS IN A PARTICULAR
STATE OR GEOGRAPHIC AREA.
SO THAT IS A WONDERFUL RESOURCE.
I'M ALSO A HUGE PROPONENT OF THE NOLO BOOKS IN YOUR LIBRARY AND NOLO.COM FOR THE FREE ONLINE
ENCYCLOPEDIA.
THAT IS FOUND LOOK THROUGH JUST TO GET KNOWLEDGE ABOUT CERTAIN AREAS OF LAW YOU MIGHT SEE MORE
QUESTIONS ABOUT.
ONCE YOU STARTED WITH YOUR SECONDARY SOURCE, KEEP IN MIND, AGAIN, THIS IS A VERY, VERY UMBRELLA,
SHALLOW DIP INTO THE LEGAL REFERENCE AREA, REMEMBER THAT YOU HAVE SEARCH SKILLS.
YOU ARE ALL INFORMATION PEOPLE, YOU ARE ON THE FRONT LINE SERVING PEOPLE WITH QUESTIONS, REMEMBER
TO PLAY TO YOUR STRENGTHS.
WE HAVE THEM.
THINK ABOUT THINGS LIKE TERM SELECTION AND I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS IS BUT IT SEEMS TO ME MOST OF URS
PRETTY GOOD AT PECKING OUT ONE OR TWO GOOD TERMS TO LOOK FOR SOMETHING THAT WE FIND OF INTEREST,
BUT WHEN WE DON'T KNOW OUR TOPIC AND WE'RE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH OUR TOPIC WE LOSE OUR MINDS AND
START LUMPING LOTS OF WORDS IN THERE.
DON'T DO THAT.
REMEMBER THAT PARTICULAR TERM SELECTION IS VERY, VERY HELPFUL, PARTICULARLY WITH LAW WHERE THE
WORDS HAVE SO MUCH MEANING.
THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE USING WHEN YOU USE YOUR SEARCH ENGINES.
ALSO, REMEMBER IN PRINTED MATERIALS PARTICULARLY AND MANY ONLINE MATERIALS THERE IS A FORM OF
INTEXTING OR TABLE OF CONTENTS THAT IS SOMETIMES PRESENT.
WHILE YOU MAY NOT, ABLE TO WALK A PATRON DIRECTLY TO ONE ITEM, A PARTICULAR THING, YOU CAN GET THEM
TO THE CHAPTER LEVEL OR A CHAPTER OR TWO CHAPTERS IN A TEXT THAT MAY BE HELPFUL BY SHOWING THEM THE
TABLE OF CONTENTS AND DEMONSTRATING HOW YOU CAN SKIM DOWN AND LOOK FOR WORDS THAT CONNECT WITH THEM
IN THEIR SITUATION.
I ALSO THINK IT IS VERY MUCH WORTH MENTIONING THAT GOOGLE HAS ADVANCED SEARCH TECHNIQUES THAT ARE
HELPFUL NOT JUST FOR WEEDING OUT SOME OF THE INTERNET MATERIAL THAT IS NOT, SHALL WE SAY, WEBSITE
APPROPRIATE, OR GOOD FOR LAW.
A LOT OF THE DOT-COMS AND DOT-NETS, IT IS NOT RELIABLE.
YOU CAN LIMIT THE SEARCH TO DOT- GOV SEATS OR DOT-EDU SITES.
AND TAX QUESTIONS WHICH ARE SO DETAILED AND YOU CAN FIND LOTS OF INFORMATION ON, SEA, IRS WEBSITE
BUT IT CAN BE CHALLENGING TO DIG INTO THEIR WEB FOR MAT SO I USED GOOGLE ADVANCED SEARCH TO SITE
SEARCH SPECIFICALLY.
THESE ARE ALL THINGS THAT WE ARE PRETTY GOOD AT DOING, I THINK, ON A REGULAR BASIS AND USE THEM
WHEN YOU'RE DOING LEGAL REFERENCE.
IN ADDITION, REMEMBER TO REFRESH YOURSELF REGULARLY ABOUT WHAT IT IS THAT YOU CAN ACCESS FROM YOUR
OWN LOCATION.
REMEMBER, THINGS LIKE YOU HAVE FEE-BASED BAT DAYSES IN YOUR LIBRARY.
SOCIAL SCIENCE DATABASED, THEY CAN HELP WITH TOPICS OF LAW.
THEY ALSO COME WITH SOPHISTICATED SEARCH AND DATA CAPABILITIES FOR MORE TARGETED SEARCH RESULTS.
CHECK YOUR CATALOG, SEE WHAT THE LIBRARY MAY HAVE, WHAT OTHER BRANCHES IN YOUR SYSTEM MIGHT HAVE.
AND LOOK TO NEIGHBORING LIBRARIES FOR MORE ROBUST QUESTIONS RELATED TO LAW QUESTIONS IN PARTICULAR,
I'M FINDING A LOT OF COMMUNITY COLLEGES HAVE PARALEGAL CERTIFICATE PROGRAMS AND THOSE PROGRAMS WILL
HAVE MATERIALS ON SITE FOR THEIR STUDENTS AND THE LIBRARIANS THERE ARE VERY HELPFUL ABOUT
CONNECTING US TO SOME OF THAT SOMETIMES AND THE PATRONS, IF IT IS SOMETHING CLOSER FOR THEM.
SO, IN ADDITION TO WHAT YOU CAN ACCESS FROM YOUR OWN SYSTEM FRAN NEARBY SYSTEMS, THINK ABOUT HOW
YOU CAN GROW YOUR ACCESS AND YOUR INFORMATION BY CONNECTING WITH OTHER ENTITIES, NOT JUST
LIBRARIES.
THINK ABOUT THE VALUE OF PARTNERSHIPS WITH ALL OF THOSE ENTITIES AROUND YOU.
OTHER ORGANIZATIONS MAKE EXCELLENT SOURCES FOR EDUCATION AND INFORMATION THAT WE CAN TUESDAY BUILD
OUR OWN AND OUR PATRON'S ACCESS.
THERE ARE MANY, MANY DIFFERENT TYPES OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT YOU COULD TRY PARTNER WITH WAY MORE THAN
I COULD.
THINGS LIKE LEGAL AID GROUPS, LAW LIBRARIES AND IF YOU DON'T HAVE A LAW LIABLE RATHER NEAR YOU,
LOOK FOR ONE THAT IS FURTHER AWAY THAT THEY CAN CERTAINLY HELP WALK YOU THROUGH BASICS OF LAW.
BAR ASSOCIATIONS AND COMMUNITY SERVICES, LIKE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES AND NONPROFIT GROUPS, ALL OF
THESE HAVE AREAS OF EXPERTISE THAT YOU CAN HELP YOUR PATRONS BY CONNECTING WITH.
AND HOW EXACTLY DO YOU FORM THOSE PARTNERSHIPS?
THIS IS LIKES THE FUN PART.
IDENTIFY WHAT THE AREA OF NEED IS THAT YOUR SYSTEM HAS.
SAY, FOR EXAMPLE, MAYBE THERE HAS BEEN SOME RECENTLY-PASSED LEGISLATION THAT IMPACTS MEDICARE OR
MEDICAID CALCULATIONS FOR ELIGIBILITY AND YOU'RE GETTING A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
SO YOU THINK, I COULD REALLY USE SOME MORE HELP IN THAT AND EARNING THE OTHER STAFF COULD HERE,
TOO.
WE'RE SEEING THESE QUESTIONS A LOT.
THINK ABOUT PARTNERS IN YOUR AREA THAT MIGHT BE KNOWLEDGEABLE IN THAT AREA.
SAY MAYBE YOU HAVE A COUNTY OFFICE OF AGING WITH ARE THEY OFFER INFORMATION ABOUT SENIOR MATTERS,
LIKE MEDICARE, MEDICAID.
CALL THEM ASK THEM IF THEY HAVE ANY BROCHURES THEY CAN MAKE AVAILABLE TO YOUR PATRONS ASK IF THEY
CAN MAYBE DO A PUBLIC INFORMATION SECTION, HAVE THEM IN TO YOUR LIBRARY AND DO A MINI LECTURE FOR
MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC OR COME TO STAFF TRAINING AND TALK ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR THING YOU KEEP
GETTING QUESTIONS ABOUT AND YOUR STAFF WILL GET MORE INFORMED AND THEY WILL BE ABLE TO RESPOND TO
QUESTIONS MORE EFFECTIVELY AND EFFICIENTLY.
YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO LOSE BY PARTNERING WITH OTHER PEOPLE AND YOU'RE GOING TO GROW
YOUR INFORMATION.
THAT IS THE QUICK AND DIRTHY ON LEGAL REFERENCE.
I THINK THE CLASS IN THE SPRING WILL BE ABLE TO GET INTO MUCH MORE DEPTH ON SOME OF THOSE TOP HE
CANS.
-- TOPICS.
>> YES, YES, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR ALL OF THAT.
AS YOU SAY, THIS WAS A HIGH LEVEL VIEW.
THING WERE SOME QUESTIONS AS THERE WILL CONTINUE TO BE QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT LINE BETWEEN LEGAL
ADVICE AND LEGAL INFORMATION, I FEEL LIKE YOU ANSWERED THAT CAREFULLY AND AS THOROUGHLY AS, GET
INTO, KNOWING THAT IN THE ACTUAL TRAINING THERE IS A LOT OF NUANCE WE WILLABLE ABLE TO EXPLORE
FURTHER.
SO I WILL JUST TRY ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS THAT WE CAN ANSWER ANSWER QUICKLY.
ONE WAS VERY SPECIFIC, WHAT IS THE WEBSITE YOU MENTIONED THAT IS USED TO EVALUATE LEGAL RESOURCES
FOR RELIABILITY.
>> THE ONE IP MENTIONTHE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF LAW LIBRARIES HAS A GUIDE, I WOULD HAVE TO
ACTUALLY FIND THE WEBSITE.
I DO WANT TO COMPILE THE THINGS THAT I MENTIONED THROUGHOUT, THIS I WOULD LIKE TO COMPILE TO ATLAS
CAN GO OUT TO PARTICIPANTS SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE SCRIBBLING WHILE I'M WORKING THROUGH THIS, BUT
IT IS ON THE AALL WEBSITENET.ORG.
AND IT WOULD BE -- AALLNET.ORG.
THE GUIDE TO EVALUATE LEGAL INFORMATION.
WILL THAT HELP YOU FIND IT?
>> I HOPE THAT WILL HELP BUT WE DEFINITELY CAN COMPILE YOUR LINKS AND MAKE THEM AVAILABLE ON THE
WEBINAR LANDING PAGE THAT WILL BE ACCESSIBLE TO EVERYBODY, WHETHER THEY ARE ATTENDING HERE TODAY OR
NOT, SO THAT WOULD BE A GREAT WAY TO MAKE SURE THAT EVERYONE CAN CONNECT WITH THE RESOURCES YOU
SHARED.
AND, THERE WAS ANOTHER QUESTION ABOUT -- YOU CAN CALL, IF THIS IS TOO DEEP TO GO INTO NOW, BUT WHAT
DO YOU SUGGEST TO PRO SES WHO NEED CREATE ORDERS AND FORMS AND YOU COULD START BY DEFINING
PROSES TO EVERYONE.
>> A PROSE IS SOMEONE REPRESENTINGS THEMSELVES IN THEIR COURT ACTION.
THEY'RE CALLED PROPERS IN CALIFORNIA AND WE ACTUALLY ARE GOING TO THE TERMINOLOGY OF SELF
REPRESENTED LITIGANTS, SRL, SO GET AWAY FROM THE FORMAL LATIN PART.
WHEN WE HAVE SELF REPRESENTEDDED LITIGANTS COME AND THEY ARE SEA TRYING TO CONSTRUCT EMOTION OR
SOMETHING THEY CANNOT FIND A SAMPLE FOR, REMEMBER I COULD WORK NOT JUST IN A LAW LIBRARY BUT IN A
FAIRLY ROBUST COLLECTION LAW LIBRARY BOOKS SO IT IS FAIRLY EASY TO GET HOLD OF SOMETHING CLOSE TO
WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE.
IN MARYLAND THERE ARE NOT OFFICIAL FORMS FOR MOST MOTIONS HAPPENING IN A CIVIL CASE SO THEY WOULD
NEED TO CONSTRUCT THEIR OWN THERE ARE SAMPLE FORMS THAT LOOKS LIKE YOU'VE DONE AN OUTLINE OF A
TEMPLATE OF WHAT THE GENERAL STRUCTURE WOULD LOOK LIKE AND THEY ARE GOING TO NEED TO FIGURE OUT THE
CONTENT THEM SELVES.
IT IS NOT A STRAIGHT FORWARD OR EASY PROCESS.
>> GREAT, I'M SURE THAT IS ABOUT AS MUCH AS YOU CAN COVER RIGHT NOW TODAY.
SOMEBODY SELLS MAKING THIS OBSERVATION THAT THIS MIGHT BE COMPARABLE, GIVING LEGAL REFERENCE MEET
BE COMPARABLE TO PEOPLE ASKING FOR MEDICAL ADVICE FROM A NURSE OR A PHARMACIST INSTEAD OF A
DOCTOR.
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THAT COMPARISON?
>> WELL, YES AND NO, BUT THEY ARES, WHEN THEY ARE ASKING FOR LEGAL ADVICE, THE FACT THAT I AM A LAW
LIBRARIAN DOESN'T MEAN I CAN SAY ANY MORE THAN LUIS CAN OFFER AS A GENERALIST LIBRARIAN.
NEITHER OF US IS AN ATTORNEY.
TO BE VERY BLUNT, AN ATTORNEY CANNOT NECESSARILY OFFER OR IN MANY CASES CANNOT OFFER ADVICE UNLESS
THEY ARE IN A ATTORNEY-CLIENT RELATIONSHIP ESTABLISHED SO MY HUSBAND IS AN ATTORNEY, IF WE ARE AT A
PARTY AFTERNOON SOMEBODY ASKED HIM FOR LEGAL ADVICE, HE CAN'T SAY, WELL MY ADVICE TO BE WOULD YOU
-- BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE AN ESTABLISHED RELATIONSHIP THAT PROTECTS PARTIES ON BOTH SIDES.
COMPARABLE TO A NURSE OFFER MED ACCOUNT, I THINK WE KNOW MORE ABOUT -- OFFERING MEDICAL, I THINK WE
KNOW MORE ABOUT LAW BECAUSE WE DEAL WITH IT A LOT OF TIMES SO WE CAN MAYBE GET CLOSER TO THAT FUZZY
LINE THAN GENERALIST BUT NOC MORE GO OVER IT THAN A NURSE CAN.
NURSES ARE VERY RESTRICTED IN WHAT THEY CAN SAY IN THE SAME WAY WE ARE.
DOES THAT HELP?
>> IT MAKES SENSE TO ME.
HOPEFULLY IT HELPS THE QUESTION ASKER.
ANOTHER PERSON WAS ASKING, ESSENTIALLY ABOUT COLLABORATING WITH PEOPLE, U.S. AS A LOCAL LAWYER OR
LEGAL AID TO DEVELOP A CURATED WEB PAGE.
AND KNOWING THAT THAT'S POTENTIALLY RIFE WITH PROBLEMS ABOUT KEEPING THINGS, MAINTAINING IT,
KEEPING THINGS UP TO DATE, KNOWING THAT RESOURCES CHANGE IS THIS SOMETHING THAT YOU DO AT YOUR LAW
LIBRARY?
>> PARTNER WITH PEOPLE OR ACTUALLY HAVE CURATED --
>> ACTUALLY HAVE CURATED WEB RESOURCES THAT YOU'RE HOSTING THROUGH COLLABORATING WITH PARTNERS.
>> YEAH, WE DO, ACTUALLY.
SO THE THURGOOD MARSHALL STATE LIBRARY, WHICH I STILL DEFAULT TO MARYLAND STATE LIBRARY HAS AS PART
OF WHAT WE DO THE MARYLAND PEOPLE'S LAW LIBRARY WEBSITE.
YOU GO ON TO THAT LAWHEALTH.ORG WEBSITE I MENTIONED EARLIER, YOU CLICK ON MARYLAND AND COME TO THE
PEOPLE'S LAW LIBRARY WEBSITE.
IT IS A LONG STANDING LEGAL INFORMATION SEAT THAT IS MANAGED BY OUR LIBRARY BUT THE CONTENT IS
WRITTEN AND HE HAD ETED AND CURE RATED AND MANAGED BUSINESS A MASSIVE COALITION OF VOLUNTEERS AND
LEGAL SERVICE ORGANIZATIONS AND MANY PEOPLE ON OUR STAFF AND IT IS A HUGE EFFORT.
IT HAS BEEN AROUND A LONG TIME SO IT'S HAD TIME TO GROW INTO WHAT IT IS.
THERE ARE ARE OTHER SITES THAT ARE LIKE IT THAT ARE SMALLER, EXCELLENT SITES THAT ARE STILL, YOU
KNOW, EVERYTHING IS STILL GROWING.
SO IT IS CERTAINLY SOMETHING THAT IS POSSIBLE.
ON THE STATE LAW LIBRARY'S WEBSITE, MYSELF, I DO A LOT OF THE WORK MANAGING AND CURE RATING
INFORMATION THAT IS AIMED DIRECTLY AT PUBLIC LIBRARY TRAINING FOR LEGAL REFERENCE, SO, YEAH, IT IS
SOMETHING WE DO A LOT OF FROM MANY ANGLES.
>> AND LUIS SUGGESTED IN CHAT MAYBE WE NEED A NATIONAL LAW LIBRARY.
I DON'T KNOW HOOFERSABLE THAT IS, GIVEN HOW STATE AND LOCAL SPECIFIC THE RESOURCES ARE.
>> WELL, YEAH, THERE IS ACTUALLY THIS THING CALLED THE LAW LIBRARY OF CONGRESS THAT SHOULD BE
TAKING SOME OF THIS.
>> YES, WORK WITH WHAT WE'VE GOT.
WELL, LET'S JUST DO ONE MORE QUESTION, AND THEN I DEFINITELY DON'T WANT TO MISS THE TIME TO TELL
PEOPLE ABOUT THE COURSE WHERE YOU WILL FIND THAT 67 MORE IN-DEPTH ON THIS TOPIC.
SOMEBODY HAD A QUESTION ABOUT DOING LIKE ASK AN ATTORNEY EVENTEDS IN THE LIBRARY.
DOES THE LIBRARY NEED TO INCLUDE A DISCLAIMER OF SORTS.
>> THATS, ACTUALLY IS PART OF HOW YOU WOULD -- WHEN YOU SET UP AN ASK A LAWYER IN THE LIBRARY TYPE
CLINIC, THE LAWYER SHOULD BE AWARE OF THE NEED FOR ANY KIND OF A DISCLAIMER AND ANY INSURANCE
COVERAGE THAT USUALLY COMES ALONG WITH THE ATTORNEY THAT VOLUNTEERS.
I DON'T MANAGE SUCH A CLINIC MYSELF SO I KNOW THESE ARE DETAILS THAT CAN BE IMPORTANT ABOUT BUT I
CAN'T ADDRESS THEM SPECIFICALLY THERE PLENTY OF LIBRARIES THAT DO, AND THIS 3 ARE RESOURCES OUT TO
FIND THAT OUT.
I ACTUALLY KNOW SOMEBODY WHO IS ON THE WEBINAR WHO COULD PROBABLY ADDRESS THAT DIRECTLY, BUT IT IS
NOT VERY HELPFUL.
IF YOU WANT TO, I WOULD LIKE TO GET THAT QUESTION TO PEOPLE WHO CAN RESPOND TO IT, HOW COULD WE DO
THAT?
>> HOPEFULLY, SINCE WE HAVE OVER 400 PEOPLE, SOMEBODY IN CHAT WILL RESPOND TO THAT, AND I WANT TO
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR INFORMATION AND MOVE US ON TO TALK ABOUT THE LIVE ONLINE COURSE THAT WE
WILL BE OFFERING SHORTLY.
I WANT TO MAKE CLEAR THAT THIS IS PART OF AN OVER ALL TRAINING PLAN, SO WE'RE STARTING WITH THIS
LIVE ONLINE INSTRUCTOR-LED COURSE IN THE MONTH OF APRIL AND INTO MAY, BUT WE WILL BE ALSO
DEVELOPING A SELF-PACED ONLINE COURSE BASED ON THE CONTENT THAT WILL FLANCH OCTOBER, AND THAT WILL
BE NO LIMIT -- LAUNCH IN OCTOBER AND THAT WILL BE NO LIMIT IN REGISTRATION, ANYBODY WHO HAS ACCESS
TO A COMPUTER AND THE INTERNET WILL BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT COURSE.
ALSO, WE WILL BE OFFERING A FACILITATOR TRAINING, AND THIS IS TO PREPARE PEOPLE TO LEAD PEER
LEARNING GROUPS THROUGH THE SELF-PACED COURSE.
IT IS YET ANOTHER WAY TO EXTEND THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THE LEARNING BUT DOING IT IN A GROUP RATHER
THAN COMPLETELY SO, SO JUST KNOW THERE IS MORE AVAILABLE DOWN THE ROAD THAN THE FIRST COURSE.
WE'RE COVERING A NUMBER OF TOPICS, ALL OF WHICH CATHERINE TOUCHED ON BUT KNOWING WE WILL BE ABLE TO
IN THIS CONTEXT, DEFINITELY LOOK AT THE MORE NUANCED ASPECT OF ALL OF THESE TOPICS, HE AND WE ARE
THRILLED AND EXCITED TO HAVE THREE WONDERFUL INSTRUCTORS, ALL MUCH THEM LAW LIBRARIANS, CATHERINE
BEING ONE OF THEM, ALSO SARA PIC FROM LOUISIANA AND SARAH LARSEN FROM MINNESOTA, SO THEY ARE ALL
VERY EXPERIENCED AS LAW LIBRARIANS AND THEY HAVE ALL DELIVERED TRAINING IN VARIOUS VENUES TO PUBLIC
LIBRARIANS.
SO REALLY EXCELLENT ROSTER.
AND, THEN, THE CRUCIAL INFORMATION, WHEN IS THIS HAPPENING AND HOW DO YOU ENROLL?
SO, IT STARTS APRIL 6 AND IT RUNS THROUGH MAY 8 THERE WILL BE 4 LIVE ONLINE INSTRUCTOR-LED SESSIONS
OVER A FIVE-WEEK PERIOD, AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE SCHEDULE IN THE ORANGE AT THE BOTTOM, YOU WILL SEE
THAT THERE ARE THREE WEEKS WITH A LIVE ONLINE SESSION IN A ROW, BUT THEN, AFTER WEEK THREE, WE ARE
ALLOWING A TWO-WEEK PERIOD BECAUSE WHEN WE FEEL AT WEB JUNCTION, IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO BE ABLE
TO APPLY WHAT YOU'RE LEARNING AND TWENTY GIVE YOU THE TIME APPLY THE LEARNING BEFORE YOU COME BACK
TO THE FINAL SESSION ON MAY 5678 THERE WILL BE READINGS, DISCUSSES, ACTIVITIED IN BETWEEN THE LIVE
SESSIONS TO ENROLL, FOLLOW THE LINK POSTED IN CHAT AND CLICK ON THE COURSE TITLE AM YOU WILL HAVE
ENROLLED YOURSELF.
YOU MAY NEED TO CREATE A WEB JUNCTION ACCOUNT IN THE LEARN.WEBJUNCTION CATALOG.
IT IS FREE, YOU ONLY NEED TO DO IT ONE TIME, BUT THAT MAY BE THE STEP YOU NEED TAKE AND THEN BUT IT
BACK AND ENROLL IN THE COURSE.
THE SESSIONS WILL ALL BE RECORDED SO THAT IF YOU'RE NOT ABLE TO BE THERE IN REAL TIME, YOU WILL BE
ABLE TO LISTEN AFTERWARDS.
WE ALSO STRONGLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO ATTEND THE LIVE SESSIONS PARTLY BECAUSE IT'S YOUR OPPORTUNITY
TO BE IN REAL TIME WITH THE INSTRUCTOR AND WITH YOUR PEERS AND TO ENGAGE IN A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE
EXCHANGING AND HAVE YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED IN REAL TIME.
SO, WE ALWAYS GET MESSED ONE TIME ZONES.
YES, WE'RE SAYING -- OH.
ACTUALLY, WE'LL SORT OUT THE TIME ZONES, OR THE TIME, PERIOD.
AND, IF DALE OR BROOK CAN POP IN TO CHAT, I THOUGHT THEY WERE AT 2:00 P.M., 11:00 A.M.,
BUT I COULD BE WRONG ABOUT THAT.
I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO ENROLL IN THE COURSE, TELL YOUR FRIENDS ABOUT IT EMPHASIZE THE CONTENTED,
THE MATERIAL IS REALLY GEARED TOWARDS PUBLIC LIBRARIES, WHICH IS NOT TO SAY OTHERS COULDN'T BENEFIT
FROM IT BUT WANT YOU TO KNOW THAT IS THE MAIN THRUST OF THE CONTENT SO THANK YOU ALL FOR COMING
TODAY.
I HOPE YOU LEARNED SOMETHING OF SUBSTANCE AND WE LOOK FORWARD TO CONNECTING WITH YOU IN THE
FUTURE.
THANK YOU.