AND I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GET OUR RECORDING STARTED, AND QUICKLY THANK OUR COLLABORATORS, LIBRARY JOURNAL AND ARSL FOR PARTNERING ON TODAY'S SESSION.
AND I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND GET OUR PRESENTERS INTRODUCED.
I'D LIKE TO WELCOME MARGO GUSTINA AND LEHN GROUP, WHO ARE COMING -- AND ELI GUINNEE, WHO ARE COMING TO US FROM THE FOIG" FOLKS AND MARGO COMES TO US FROM THE SOUTHERN TIER LIBRARY SYSTEM IN NEW YORK, AND SHE IS OUR 2018 LIBRARY MOVER AND SHAKER.
AND ELI COMES TO US AS THE STATE LIE BRIAN OF THE NEW MEXICO STATE LIBRARY.
WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU, AND I'M GOING TO GO AHEAD AND PASS IT ON OVER TO MARGO TO GET US STARTED.
WELCOME.
>> THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR JOINING US.
AS JENNIFER SAID, I'M ELI, THE STATE LIBRARIAN OF NEW MEXICO, JOINING YOU FROM SUNNY SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO.
>> HI, I'M MARGO, I'M ALSO JOINING YOU FROM SANTA FE.
I WORK FOR THE SOUTHERN TIER LIBRARY SYSTEM IN NEW YORK, AND I RESEARCH HOW RURAL LIBRARIES IMPACT COMMUNITY WELL-BEING, JUST TO LET YOU KNOW THAT WE'LL BE FRAMING EVERYTHING WE TALK ABOUT IN TERMS OF BOTH LARGE LIBRARIES AS WELL AS RURAL LIBRARIES.
>> IN OUR WORK WITH LIBRARIES OF ALL SIZES AND WITH LIBRARY WORKERS OF ALL BACKGROUNDS, ONE THING THAT MARGO AND I HAVE NOTICED IS THAT THERE'S A GAB BETWEEN PROFESSIONAL VALUES AND THE SORT OF ON THE GROUND PRACTICE OF LIBRARIANSHIP.
AND THE LIBRARY FIELD WE CERTAINLY VALUE PRIVACY, CONFIDENTIALITY, AND INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM, VERY, VERY HIGHLY.
BUT SO OFTEN IT IS DIFFICULT TO IN PRACTICE TO SUPPORT THESE VALUES IN OUR WORK.
THIS PRESENTATION IS WELL AS PART TWO, WHICH IS ON AUGUST 8th, IS INTENDED TO PROVIDE YOU WITH SOME CONTEXT FOR MAKING SOME DIFFICULT DECISIONS AND TO HELP YOU FIND WAYS TO CLOSE THAT GAP.
SO AS A PROFESSION, WE ARE PRETTY EXPLICIT ABOUT OUR VALUE OF INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM THROUGH STATEMENTS OF THE AMERICAN LIBRARY ASSOCIATION AS OUR NATIONAL PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION.
HOWEVER, THIS IS ALL GROUNDED IN THE U.S. CONSTITUTION CASE LAW, AND THE VARIOUS STATE STATUTES.
SO WE START WITH THE PREMISE THAT A HIGH-FUNCTIONING DEMOCRACY REQUIRES FREE SPEECH, FREE EXCHANGE OF INFORMATION, AND IDEAS, AND AS SUCH, LIBRARIES SERVE AS A CRITICAL AND FOUNDATIONAL ROLE IN A DEMOCRACY.
SO, FOR EXAMPLE, COURT OPINIONS HAVE COMMONLY UPHELD THE RIGHT OF INDIVIDUALS OF ALL AGES TO SEEK INFORMATION SUCH THAT THEY CAN BE INFORMED PARTICIPANTS IN DEMOCRACY.
I'M USING THESE WORDS PRIVACY, CONFIDENTIALITY, AND INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM, AND THOSE ARE WORDS WE THROW AROUND A LOT.
SO JUST IS REAL QUICK, PRIVACY, WHEN WE SAY THAT, IT'S JUST FREEDOM FROM INTRUSION INTO PERSONAL MATTERS OF YOUR PATRONS.
CONFIDENTIALITY PROTECTS THE INFORMATION THAT PEOPLE HAVE SHARED WITH YOU.
AND INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM IS THE RIGHTS OF LIBRARY USERS TO READ, SEEK INFORMATION, AND SPEAK FREELY AS GUARANTEED BY THE CONSTITUTION.
WE'RE GOING TO SHOW YOU A SERIES OF SLIDES THAT REQUIRE SOME AUDIENCE PARTICIPATION AND INTERACTION.
JENNIFER, CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW THAT'S GOING TO WORK FOR US?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
ALL RIGHT, FOLKS.
THIS IS YOUR ORIENTATION TO THE ANNOTATION TOOLS.
IF YOU HOVER OVER YOUR SLIDE, YOU SHOULD SEE ON THE FAR LEFT A WHITE, LONG PILL MENU THAT LOOKS MUCH LIKE THIS.
IF YOU GO TO THE SQUIGGLE TOWARDS THE TOP OF THAT MENU OPTION, AND CLICK ON THE SQUIGGLE, YOU'LL SEE ANOTHER MENU OPEN FARTHER TO THE LEFT.
IF YOU GO HALFWAY DOWN THAT MENU TO THE BOX, THE SQUARE-SHAPED BOX, YOU'LL FIND A SUBMENU, AND WITHIN THAT SUBMENU YOU'LL SEE A CHECK MANAGER.
SO FEEL -- CHECK MARK.
FEEL FREE TO CLICK ON THAT CHECK MARK AND YOU CAN CLICK ON THIS SLIDE, AND ANOTHER SLIDE, YOU CAN EVEN PRACTICE A LITTLE BIT MORE AND THAT'S THE WAY TO USE IT.
IT'S GOOD TO SEE FOLKS HAVE ACCESS.
IF YOU DON'T SEE THAT CHECK MARK OPTION, KNOW THAT YOU CAN ALSO GIVE YOUR VOICE IN CHAT AND JUST BE -- JUST BE SURE TO POST TO ALL PARTICIPANTS IN CHAT IF YOU HAVE YOUR RESPONSE THERE.
THANK YOU.
>> THANKS, GUYS.
NOW PAUSE, PLEASE.
PAUSE.
[LAUGHTER]
SO WHAT I'D LIKE YOU TO DO IS ON THIS CONTINUUM, I'M GOING TO SAY THE STATEMENT, AND THEN THE MORE YOU SAY YES TO THIS ANSWER, PUT YOUR CHECK ALL THE WAY OVER TO THE YES.
THE MORE YOU SAY NO TO THIS QUESTION, PUT IT -- YOUR CHECK ALL THE WAY TO THE NO.
AND ARRANGE YOURSELF ALONG THAT CONTINUUM.
A PARENT OF A 12-YEAR-OLD FINDS OUT THAT THEIR CHILD HAS A LARGE FINE AND OVERDUE BOOKS.
SHE COMES TO THE CIRCULATION DESK AND WANTS TO KNOW WHAT THE FINES ARE FOR AND WHAT BOOKS ARE STILL OVERDUE.
WOULD YOU GIVE THE PARENT THE LIST?
I SHOULD ALSO SAY, I DON'T WANT TO KNOW WHAT YOU THINK YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD ACTUALLY DO.
IN THIS CASE WE ARE TREATING THE 12-YEAR-OLD AS AN INDEPENDENT CARD HOLDER.
IT ISN'T A NESTED CARD.
>> THERE'S QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT ARE THE RELEVANT POLICIES.
SO IN THIS CASE IT'S JUST WHAT YOU WOULD DO AT YOUR OWN LIBRARY.
>> GREAT.
LOOK AT THAT.
ALL RIGHT.
WHAT IF THE PARENT SAID THAT THEIR CHILD HAS BEEN ACTING VERY FUNNY LATELY AND THEY ARE WORRIED SOMETHING BAD IS GOING TO HAPPEN TO THE CHILD?
WOULD YOU GIVE THE PARENT THE LIST IF THEY WERE WORRIED ABOUT THE CHILD'S HEALTH AND SAFETY?
NO OVERDUE FINES.
AGAIN, THIS IS AN INDEPENDENT CARD HOLDER.
NO NESTED CARDS.
>> THIS IS A PARENT WITHOUT THE CHILD THERE.
>> SO WHAT'S REALLY INTERESTING TO ME IS THERE IS VERY FEW MIDDLE OF THE ROADERS.
YOU'RE ALL LIKE, YES!
NO!
ALL RIGHT.
IS WHAT IF IT WAS A WOMAN ASKING TO PAY HER HUSBAND'S FINES?
WOULD YOU GIVE THE WOMAN A RECEIPT SHOWING WHICH ITEMS SHE HAD PAID FOR IF SHE ASKED?
[LAUGHTER]
I SEE A DEFINITE CLUSTERING HERE.
HEY, BELOW THAT LINE, JUST AS -- NEVER MIND.
I'LL JUST KEEP GOING.
WHAT IF IT WAS A WOMAN ASKING TO PAY HER 14-YEAR-OLD CHILD'S FINES?
WOULD YOU GIVE THE WOMAN THE RECEIPT SHOWING WHICH ITEMS SHE HAD PAID FOR IF SHE ASKED?
AGAIN, NOT A LOT OF MIDDLE OF THE ROADERS.
AT WHAT AGE DO YOU STOP SHOWING THE PARENT THEIR CHILD'S RECEIPT WITH THE ITEMS LISTED?
>> THERE'S A QUESTION ABOUT WHICH STATE -- WHATEVER STATE YOU'RE IN, WHATEVER STATE YOU DO YOUR WORK IN.
IN THE CHAT BOX WE HAVE 17, 18, 18, 13, 10.
>> YEAH.
A LOT OF PEOPLE LOOKS LIKE THEIR LOCAL POLICY WEIGHS HEAVILY TOWARD THE AGE OF MAJORITY.
BUT THERE DOES SEEM TO BE -- THERE IS A CONTINGENT OF YOU ALL THAT IS AT ANY AGE.
SO SINCE SOMEONE ALREADY MENTIONED IT, LET'S HEAR WHAT STATE LAW HAS TO SAY.
ELI?
>> SO OF COURSE A LOT OF -- ON THIS SUBJECT A LOT OF WHAT YOU'RE REQUIRED TO DO DEPENDS ON YOUR OWN STATE'S LAW.
SO LET'S LOOK AT A COUPLE OF STATES.
CAN YOU ADVANCE THE SLIDE, PLEASE?
THANK YOU.
SO IN NEW YORK, THE STATUTE SAYS QUITE CLEARLY THAT RECORDS SHALL NOT -- SHALL REMAIN CONFIDENTIAL AND SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED.
AND NOTE THAT THERE ARE NO EXCEPTIONS FOR AGES OR PARENTS, OR MARRIAGE, AND THERE'S NO EXCEPTIONS FOR FINES OR OVERDUE BOOKS.
NOW LET'S LOOK AT NEW MEXICO.
WHAT WE SEE IN NEW MEXICO IS SIMILARLY, PATRON RECORDS SHALL NOT BE DISCLOSED OR RELEASED TO ANY PERSON, BUT HERE IN NEW MEXICO WE HAVE AN EXCEPTION IN THE STATUTES THAT SAYS THE LIBRARY PRIVACY ACT SHALL NOT APPLY TO ORE DUE NOTICES.
SO WHAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO IN NEW YORK IS QUITE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO IN NEW MEXICO.
AS A LITTLE BIT OF HOMEWORK, WE WOULD LIKE YOU TO FIGURE OUT IF YOU DON'T ALREADY KNOW, WHAT DOES YOUR STATE LAW SAY?
WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO GIVE, FOR EXAMPLE, A PARENT ACCESS TO THEIR CHILDREN'S RECORDS?
IF YOU ARE COMING TO OUR AUGUST 8th PART TWO SESSION, PLEASE COME WITH BOTH THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION, BUT WE'D ALSO REALLY LIKE TO KNOW WHERE YOU FOUND IT.
SO IF YOU FOUND THAT ON A WEBSITE, PLEASE BRING THE LINK WITH YOU.
I NOTICE MARGO THAT IN THE CHAT BOX SEVERAL PEOPLE SAID THAT THEY HAVE LINKED CARDS.
SO THEY WOULD PROVIDE INFORMATION IF A CARD WAS LINKED TO THE WOMAN.
>> YES.
SO THIS IS WHY I KEPT MENTIONING, IN THIS CASE, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE CASES WE'RE TALKING ABOUT UNLINKED CARDS WHERE THERE'S BEEN NO EXPLICIT COULD BE SENT WHEN SIGNING UP FOR YOUR PATRON CARD.
THAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS ACCESS TO IT.
ALL RIGHT.
ARE WE READY TO GO ON TO OUR NEXT ONE?
>> M-HMM.
>> COOL.
A 10-YEAR-OLD WANTS TO CHECK OUT AN R-RATED DVD.
DO YOU LET HER?
>> INTERESTING.
>> SUPER INTERESTING.
I LIKE THAT AT LEAST SOME OF YOU ARE ON THE CONTINUUM, BUT MOST OF YOU, AGAIN, ARE VERY EITHER YES OR NO ON THIS.
SO I'LL GIVE YOU ONE MORE SECOND TO PUT A CHECK MARK ON -- OR A QUESTION MARK.
[LAUGHTER]
WE'LL MOVE ON TO WHAT THE ALA HAS TO SAY.
SO THE ALA PROVIDES GUIDANCE, AND I'M ACTUALLY ALSO GOING TO MENTION HERE, WHICH WE INTENDED TO MENTION IN THE BEGINNING, NEITHER ELI AND I ARE LAWYERS.
AND THE ALA EMPLOYS A BUNCH OF LAWYERS, BUT MANY OF THE OPINIONS AREN'T NECESSARILY DRAFTED BY LAWYERS, THEY'RE DRAFTED BY LIBRARIANS.
AND SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT INTERPRETATIONS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INTERPRETATIONS OF THE CONSTITUTION CAN OF THE UNITED STATES.
SO HOW DO YOU LIBRARIANS INTERPRET INTO THEIR WORK THE FIRST AMENDMENT AND FOURTH AMENDMENTS OF THE CONSTITUTION WHICH SUPPORT THE ELEMENTS OF INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM DISCUSSED IN THE BILL OF RIGHTS?
SO BOTH PRIVACY AND FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF INFORMATION.
>> JUST BEFORE YOU GO ON, MARGO, JUST FROM THE CHAT BOX, THERE'S ONE PARTICIPANT SAYS THEY DON'T HAVE DVDs OVER PG-13.
OTHERS SEPARATE JUVENILE CARDS AND ADULT CARDS.
AND IT LOOKS LIKE SOME SAY THAT CHILDREN CANNOT GET AN R-RATED MOVIE WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS.
>> YEAH.
I NOTICED THAT.
AND ALSO THAT CHILDREN ARE RESTRICTED BASED ON ITEM TYPE OR MATERIAL TYPE, BECAUSE OF THE EXPENSE OF THE ITEMS.
SO WHAT THE ALA STATES IS THAT CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED SPEECH CANNOT BE SUPPRESSED, TO PROTECT CHILDREN OR YOUNG ADULTS FROM IDEAS OR IMAGES.
SOMETHING WE SHOULD POINT OUT TOO IS THAT IT SAYS WE SHOULD NOT RESORT TO AGE RESTRICTIONS IN THE WAY WE GIVE ACCESS TO MATERIALS.
SO ANY TIME THIS HAS COME BEFORE THE SUPREME COURT, THE SUPREME COURT SIDES WITH MINORS, REPEATEDLY ON FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES AND ACCESS TO INFORMATION.
THEY DO SO BECAUSE THE IDEA IS THAT YOU CAN'T ARRIVE AT THE AGE OF MAJORITY HAVING NEVER MADE INDEPENDENT DECISIONS ABOUT WHAT YOU CONSUME IN TERMS OF INFORMATION.
AND IF YOU HAVEN'T MADE INDEPENDENT DECISIONS BEFORE YOU TURN 18, YOU CAN'T BE A FULL PARTICIPANT IN DEMOCRACY, WHICH REQUIRES THE ABILITY TO DISCERN BETWEEN GOOD AND BAD INFORMATION.
I ALSO WANT TO POINT OUT THE VALUE OF THESE ALA -- HOW VALUABLE A TOOL ALA INTERPRETATIONS CAN BE WHEN BUILDING A CULTURE OF INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM IN YOUR LIBRARY.
BECAUSE OF THEIR VALUE, I DO HOPE THAT ALA COUNSELORS WILL WORK WITH THE OFFICES OF INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM AND ALSO DIVERSITY, LITERACY, AND OUTREACH SERVICES TO CREATE A FREEDOM TO PROGRAM STATEMENT, SO WE HAVE EXPLICIT FULL SUPPORT OF OUR PROFESSIONAL ASSOCIATION IN LOCALLY PRODUCING PROGRAMMING LIKE DRAG QUEEN STORY TIMES AND OTHER PROGRAMMING THAT IMPROVES REPRESENTATION IN OUR LIBRARY OF ALL OF OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS.
SO, NO, IT IS NEVER -- ACCORDING TO THE SUPREME COURT, OUR CONSTITUTION, AND ALA INTERPRETATIONS, IT'SNER UP TO THE PARENT WHAT A CHILD PICKS OUT.
>> AND THE ALA EXPLICITLY SAYS THAT WE CAN'T JUST REFER TO THIRD-PARTY RATING SYSTEMS TO MAKE THAT DECISION FOR US.
ONE THING I NOTICED IN THE CHECK MARK ACTIVITY IS THAT WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT LIKE A BASIC PRIVACY ISSUE, SHOULD THE PARENT PROVIDE -- BE PROVIDED WITH THEIR CHILD'S RECORDS, THERE WERE -- A LOT OF PEOPLE SAID NO, BUT WHEN IT CAME TO MONEY ISSUE, WHEN THERE WAS A FINE INVOLVED, IT SEEMED LIKE MORE PEOPLE SAID YES, GIVE THE INFORMATION.
AND THAT'S KIND OF A TREND THAT WE'VE SEEN ALL AROUND THE COUNTRY, I THINK, IS THAT IT'S EASY TO SUPPORT PRIVACY UNTIL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT MONEY.
AND SIMILARLY WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CHECKING OUT R-RATED MOVIES TO CHILDREN, AND IT'S EASY UNTIL YOU HAVE AN ANGRY PARENT IN FRONT OF YOU, AND SUDDENLY EVEN THOUGH THE SUPREME COURT MIGHT SUPPORT YOU, HAVING AN ANGRY PERSON IN FRONT OF YOU CAN BE QUITE DIFFICULT.
WHEN IT COMES TO THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL, ONE THING THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO KEEP IN MIND IS THAT THERE ARE A VARIETY OF FORCES THAT WORK FOR AND AGAINST THE PRIVACY AND INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUALS IN YOUR COMMUNITY.
COMMONLY THE FORCES WORKING AGAINST THOSE RIGHTS MIGHT INCLUDE PARENTS, LIKE I SAY, LAW ENFORCEMENT, RELIGION, THE COMMUNITIES' NORMS, CORPORATION, SPECIAL INTEREST GROUPS.
FORCES WORKING FOR THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL CAN INCLUDE THINGS LIKE THE COURT SYSTEM, THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, OUR PROFESSIONAL INSTITUTIONS, AND OUR PROFESSIONAL ETHICS.
NOTICE THAT THOSE WORKING FOR THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL TEND TO BE LESS DIRECT, PRESENT, AND IMMEDIATE, WHILE THOSE WORKING AGAINST THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL TEND TO BE RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU.
WHICH IS WHAT CAN BE SO DIFFICULT.
KEEP IN MIND AS YOU DO YOUR WORK THAT WITH SO MANY FORCES WORKING AGAINST THE PRIVACY OF OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS, CONSIDER THE VALUE OF THE LIBRARY AS ONE OF THE VERY FEW PLACES WHERE PEOPLE IN YOUR COMMUNITY CAN GO, WHERE THEY FEEL LIKE THEIR PRIVACY AND FREEDOM IS TRULY VALUED.
>> I'M ALREADY DOING THAT THING WHERE I'M HAVING A HARD TIME PAYING ATTENTION TO BOTH CHAT AND SLIDES.
SORRY, EVERYONE.
SO LET'S TALK ABOUT DEALING WITH THE GRAY AREAS.
LIKE HAVING THE ANGRY PARENT IN FRONT OF YOU.
AND FOR REASONS THAT YOU MIGHT TOTALLY APPRECIATE, RIGHT?
LIKE IT ISN'T ONLY DIFFICULT BECAUSE OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS HAVE A CERTAIN SET OF MORES AND VALUES, BUT WE MIGHT SHARE THEM AND SEEK TO PROTECT OUR OTHER PATRONS OR THE PATRONS IN FRONT OF US.
AND IN SO DOING HARM OR IMPINGE ON THAT INDIVIDUAL'S PRIVACY.
SO LET'S TALK A LITTLE -- WE MENTIONED SOME CULTURAL THINGS THAT WE CAN DO LIKE REPEATEDLY TALKING ABOUT THE VALUES AND INTERPRETATIONS THAT WE HAVE AS A NATIONAL PROFESSION WITH OUR BOARDS AND LOCAL LEGISLATORS, ESPECIALLY AS WE MEET WITH OUR MUNICIPALITIES OR OUR LOCAL COUNCILS TO BRING UP INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM AND PRIVACY, AND THE THINGS THAT WE'RE DOING WITHIN THE LIBRARY THAT SUPPORT OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS.
AND REMEMBERING THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU LIVE IN A SMALL TOWN OR A BIG CITY, DOESN'T MEAN THAT THE INDIVIDUALS WITHIN THAT COMMUNITY DESERVE FEWER CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED RIGHTS.
RIGHT?
LIKE, WE HEAR A LOT FROM PEOPLE THAT SAY, WELL, THIS IS A NEIGHBORHOOD LIBRARY, I CAN'T BE EXPECTED TO KEEP COULD EVERYTHING PRIVATE OR CONFIDENTIAL.
BUT IF WE SAID THE REVERSE, DO INDIVIDUALS IN OUR COMMUNITIES DESERVE FEWER RIGHTS AND CONSTITUTIONAL PROTECTIONS BECAUSE THEY LIVE IN A SMALL COMMUNITY, I THINK WE WOULD ALL RESOUNDINGLY SAY NO.
SO FINDING STRUCTURAL WAYS IN ADDITION TO CULTURE TO HELP SUPPORT PRIVACY AND CONFIDENTIALITY IN THE LIBRARY CAN BE VERY HELPFUL.
SO LET'S QUICKLY LOOK AT A LIST OF STRUCTURAL CHANGES WE CAN MAKE WITHIN THE BUILDING THAT HELP US MANAGE THESE THINGS.
LIKE KEEPING PATRON RECORDS CONFIDENTIAL.
EVEN THOUGH THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO HAS AN EXCEPTION IN ITS STATE LAW THAT SAYS I CAN SHARE A HUSBAND'S INFORMATION WITH HIS WIFE, DOESN'T MEAN I HAVE TO.
MY LOCAL POLICY CAN BE -- CAN PROVIDE STRONGER PROTECTION FOR PATRON PRIVACY THAN THE LAW -- THAN THE LAW PROVIDES EXCEPTION FOR.
ALSO, KNOW HOW TO DEAL WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT, AND AGAIN, THIS IS GOING TO GO BACK TO STATE LAW, BUT NATIONALLY AND CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED, VISITS TO THE LIBRARY ARE PROTECTED SPEECH.
OR WHAT TAKES PLACE AT THAT VISIT.
SO WHAT I CHECK OUT, WHAT I DO WITH WHAT I CHECK OUT, THE WEBSITES I VISIT, THAT'S ALL CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED SPEECH AND IS SUPPOSED TO BE KEPT CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVATE.
UNLESS A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER HAS A SUBPOENA.
DEVELOPING REALISTIC POLICIES, AGAIN, IN KEEPING WITH THE UNDERSTANDING THAT YOUR LOCAL FOLKS DESERVE ALL THE PROTECTION AS SOMEONE LIVING IN A CITY OR WEALTHY SUBURB.
BUT KNOW THAT AS YOU DEVELOP REALISTIC POLICIES, WHAT MAKES THEM REALISTIC IS DEVELOPING THE CULTURE THAT SUPPORTS THOSE POLICIES AND HELPING STAFF TRAIN IN REAL LIFE HOW TO DEAL WITH ANGRY PARENT WHO COMES BACK WITH AN R-RATED MOVIE THEIR KID CHECKED OUT, OR MANGA OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
PRACTICING A LAW ENFORCEMENT PROCEDURE, BECAUSE WHEN A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER COMES INTO THE BUILDING AND ASKS FOR INFORMATION, WE'RE HELPERS.
AND IF WE THINK SOMEONE'S SAFETY IS IN JEOPARDY, WE MIGHT GIVE OVER INFORMATION THAT WE DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO GIVE.
SO PRACTICING THOSE THINGS CAN HELP MAKE THEM SORT OF INTELLECTUAL MUSCLE MEMORY.
EXACTLY, WHERE'S THE WARRANT, MAN?
SUBMENU MIGHT WANT TO SAY IT DIFFERENTLY.
AND THEN AVOIDING BAD SITUATIONS, THROUGH STRUCTURAL CHANGES.
WE COULD -- WE MIGHT HAVE OPPORTUNITY TO LATER TALK FOREVER ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE, WHAT IMPACT ON OUR PUBLIC ACCESS COMPUTERS AND WHAT LOCAL SORT OF REGULATIONS AND POLICIES MAY HAVE ON ACCESS TO PUBLIC ACCESS COMPUTERS.
BUT WE'LL SIMPLY SAY HERE THAT IF YOU CAN SEPARATE YOUTH FROM ADULT COMPUTERS, IF THEY HAVE SEPARATE FILTERING POLICIES, THEN THAT MAY BE WORTH WHILE IF YOU'RE IN AN INSTITUTION WHERE THAT'S POSSIBLE.
AND THEN YOU CAN'T ACT IN LOCO PARENTIS.
IF YOU HAVE BEEN SCHOOL LIBRARIANS OR TEACHERS YOU KNOW YOU CAN BE THE LOCAL PARENT, WE MENTIONED THIS EARLIER WITH THE RATED R MOVIE, AS A PUBLIC LIBRARIAN YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BE A PARENT.
AND I BELIEVE SOMEONE MENTIONED IN THE CHAT THE -- THE STATEMENT THAT I USUALLY USE, WHICH IS, HI, I APPRECIATE YOUR CONCERN OVER YOUR CHILD'S READING, SLASH, VIEWING, SLASH PROGRAM ATTENDANCE.
I THINK THAT I AM POORLY EQUIPPED TO PARENT YOUR CHILD, AND I AM SO EXCITED FOR YOU TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH THEM.
I DON'T THINK I'M THE APPROPRIATE PERSON TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION WITH THEM.
BUT I DO RESPECT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND RELATIONSHIP TO THAT CHILD.
GO AHEAD AND -- YOU CAN RESTRICT WHATEVER YOU WANT, I CAN'T.
I'M NOT THEIR PARENT.
>> MARGO, THERE'S BEEN BACK AND FORTH ON THE CHAT REGARDING WHETHER OR NOT YOU CAN REVEAL TO LAW ENFORCEMENT THE PRESENCE OF SOMEONE IN THE BUILDING.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I KNOW AS A LIBRARY SYSTEM DIRECTOR, WE HAD AN INCIDENT AND I ASKED A LAWYER ABOUT THAT.
AND MY MEMORY IS THAT IT'S KIND OF A GRAY AREA.
SO TO A LARGE EXTENT IT DEPENDS ON THE WORLDING OF YOUR -- WORDING OF YOUR STATE'S STATUTE REGARDING PATRON CONFIDENTIALITY.
WHEN I ASKED A LAWYER ABOUT IT, WE WERE IN NEW YORK AND IT WASN'T A CLEARANCE, BUT MY MEMORY IS THAT THE ANSWER WAS YES, WE COULD REVEAL THE PRESENCE OF SOMEONE.
WHAT IS YOUR FEEL ON THAT?
>> IN ALL OF THESE THINGS, AND THE REASON WHY THERE'S SO MUCH GRAY AREA IN PRACTICE, AND THE REASON WHY IT'S A GOOD IDEA TO PRACTICE THESE THINGS SORT OF CONTINUALLY ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND MORE COMPLETELY YOUR STATE STATUTE, AND A PERSON'S RELATIONSHIP TO THE LAW, TO RECOGNIZE THAT YOU ARE AN INDIVIDUAL WITH A HEART AND A HEAD.
SO WHEN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER COMES TO YOUR BUILDING AND SAYS THAT THERE'S A VULNERABLE THAT'S GONE MISSING AND THEIR NEXT OF RELATIONSHIP -- NEXT RELATION IS LOOKING FOR THEM IN THE BUILDING, CAN YOU SEE IF JIM IS THERE?
IF YOU SAY YES, HE'S HERE, YOU KNOW, CHANCES ARE IT WILL BE FINE.
THE LAW IS A ALSO GRAY ON PHYSICAL PRESENCE.
I WILL THEN SHARE A COUPLE OF OTHER THINGS, CAMERA FOOTAGE IS TREATED DIFFERENTLY.
CAMERA FOOTAGE INSIDE THE BUILDING IS AGAIN GOVERNED BY STATE STATUTE AND SOMETIMES LOCAL MUNICIPALITY STATUTES.
SO IF YOU'RE A MUNICIPAL PUBLIC LIBRARY, YOUR MUNICIPALITY MAY HAVE SPECIFIC REGULATIONS ABOUT CAMERAS INSIDE THE BUILDING, AND WHAT NOTICE MUST BE GIVEN TO PATRONS IF YOU'VE GOT CAMERAS WHICH ARE RECORDING.
FURTHER -- SO THE ANSWER IS TO PROTECT AN INDIVIDUAL'S PRIVACY, YOU WOULD ALWAYS REQUIRE A WARRANT OF A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL TO TELL THEM IF A PERSON IS PHYSICALLY PRESENT IN THE BUILDING BECAUSE OF -- WELL, AT LEAST IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK, THE LANGUAGE IS THE CONTENT OF THE VISIT MUST BE KEPT CONFIDENTIAL.
AND THAT MIGHT BE ENTREPRENEUR TED TO INCLUDE THE PHYSICAL PRESENCE OF THE BUILDING.
THAT SAID, IF YOU SAY, OKAY, I'M GOING TO GIVE THAT TO LAW ENFORCEMENT BUT I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE IT TO ANYONE ELSE, I WOULD SAY THAT THAT'S PROBABLY A WISE CHOICE.
AND MY TENDENCY TOWARD THIS ON PRIVACY IS BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS LIKE THE VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN'S ACT, AND OTHER COURT-INVOLVED INDIVIDUALS WHICH MIGHT NEED THAT PROTECTION OF PRIVACY IF THEY'RE GOING TO USE THE LIBRARY, IT MIGHT BE A SAFETY CONCERN.
>> THANK YOU.
I APPRECIATE THAT.
WE'RE NOW GOING TO DO A SERIES OF CASE STUDIES.
TWO CASE STUDIES, ACTUALLY, AND WE'LL READ -- I'LL READ THEM OUT LOUD AND WE'LL ASK YOU A A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS.
FOR THIS ONE WE WOULD JUST LIKE YOU TO PLACE YOUR ANSWERS IN THE CHAT BOX.
SO THE FIRST CASE STUDY IS THIS.
RAY IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE FUTTERMAN LIBRARY WITH A SPACIOUS PUBLIC MEETING ROOM.
A REGULAR PATRON ASKS HIM TO RESERVE THE ROOM TO HOST A MEETING FOR HER CHURCH.
RAY, WHO KNOWS MOST OF HIS BOARD MEMBERS DISAGREE WITH THE CONTROVERSIAL VIEWS OF THE CHURCH ASKS THE PATRON FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE MEETING.
THE PATRON SAYS IT IS INTENDED TO BE A PLANNING MEETING FOR AN UPCOMING POLITICAL ACTION AGAINST ANOTHER COMMUNITY ORGANIZATION, PLANNED PARENTHOOD.
RAY KNOWS IF HE SAYS YES HIS BOARD WILL NOT BE HAPPY.
THE QUESTION WE HAVE FOR YOU IS, DO PATRONS HAVE A RIGHT TO USE A SPACE IN THE LIBRARY FOR RELIGIOUSLY AFFILIATED ACTIVITIES?
>> I SEE A LOT OF YESES AND I SEE A LOT OF SOME DEPENDS ON THE POLICIES.
>> AND I SEE FOR SOME OF THEM THERE IS -- I'VE SEEN A COUPLE -- THEY CAN'T COLLECT MONEY, YEP.
SOMEONE SAID PUBLIC LIBRARY, THEN NO.
I'D LIKE US TO ADDRESS THAT ONE DIRECTLY.
DO YOU WANT TO TAKE IT OR DO YOU WANT ME TO?
>> WELL, IF YOU GO ONE MORE SLIDE THAT MIGHT ADDRESS IT.
SO THE KEY HERE IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PUBLIC FORUM, A LIMITED PUBLIC FORUM AND A NONPUBLIC FORUM.
SO A PUBLIC FORUM IS SOMETHING LIKE A TRADITIONAL SIDEWALK CORNER.
WHERE ANYONE CAN STAND ON A SIDEWALK CORNER AND DO OR SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT.
A NONPUBLIC FORUM IS A PROPERTY THAT'S NOT OPEN TO PUBLIC EXPRESSION.
SO THAT WOULD BE IN YOUR LIBRARY BUILDING, THAT WOULD BE LIKE THE STAFF MEETING ROOM.
YOU HAVE NOT DESIGNATED THAT AS A PUBLIC AREA.
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PUBLIC LIBRARIES, GENERALLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LIMITED PUBLIC FORUMS AND THE COURTS HAVE DETERMINED THAT PUBLIC LIBRARY SPACES ARE DESIGNATED PUBLIC FORUMS.
WHICH MEANS ESSENTIALLY THAT RELIGIOUS GROUPS CAN'T BE DISCOUNTED.
SO YOU CANNOT, ACCORDING TO THE FEDERAL COURT SYSTEM, SAY IN YOUR MEETING ROOM POLICIES LEGALLY THAT IT CANNOT BE USED FOR RELIGIOUS USES.
>> GREAT.
THANKS.
>> THERE'S A LINK ON THAT SLIDE, JENNIFER, ARE YOU ABLE TO PASTE THAT LINK INTO THE CHAT BOX?
BECAUSE THIS IS SUCH A MISUNDERSTOOD ISSUE IN THE LIBRARY FIELD, I WOULD ENCOURAGE EVERYONE TO FOLLOW THAT LIK THERE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH.
AND IT'S A LINK TO A FAITH CENTER CHURCH VERTSDZ GLOVER, AND THE OPINION REALLY HELPS TO -- WILL REALLY HELP YOU TO UNDERSTAND SORT OF THE CONTEXT FOR THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE.
THE NEXT QUESTION IS, WHAT POLICIES COULD THE BOARD HAVE IN PLACE TO SUPPORT RAY IN MAKING MEETING ROOM DECISIONS?
WHAT POLICIES COULD THE BOARD HAVE IN PLACE?
[LAUGHTER]
>> SO, YES, YOU COULD HAVE IN PLACE A POLICY THAT SAYS THE MEETING ROOM IS NOW A LIMITED OR NONPUBLIC FORUM.
SO ONE OF THE ANSWERS WAS, MEETING ROOMS CAN ONLY BE USED FOR LIBRARY SPONSORED PROGRAMS, WHICH ACTUALLY CHANGES THE DESIGNATION OF THE SPACE COMPLETELY, AND MAKES YOUR POLICY VERY BLACK AND WHITE, RIGHT?
LIKE YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE CONTENT OF A PROGRAM AND YOU'RE GIVING EQUAL SPACE TO ALL CONTACT IF YOU JUST TAKE THE MEETING ROOM OUT OF PUBLIC USE.
OR, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT SO THERE ARE A COUPLE OF VERSIONS OF JUST GETTING RID OF MEETING ROOMS ALL TOGETHER.
BUT IT'S TRUE, MANY OF YOU HAVE -- MANY OF YOU HAVE ANSWERS THAT GET AT SOME LIMITATIONS THAT ARE SORT OF TYPE RATHER THAN CONTENT.
BUT I'M ALSO GOING TO GET INTO THE CONTENT ONE, SOMEONE SAID, CAN YOU BAR FOR POLITICAL USE, AND THE ANSWER IS NO.
CONTENT IS CONTENT, AND YOUR POLICY HAS TO BE CONTENT AGNOSTIC.
SO THE GUIDING PRINCIPLES FOR WRITING A POLICY ON MEETING ROOM USE IS THAT IT HAS TO FIT YOUR MISSION, IT SHOULD AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE BROADEN ACCESS TO PROTECTED SPEECH, SO A POLICY WHICH SAYS THAT AS LONG AS IT'S A PUBLIC MEETING IT CAN HAPPEN HERE, THAT'S FINE.
AND THEN LIMITATIONS MUST BE UNAVOIDABLE, OBJECTIVE, AND EVENLY APPLIED ACROSS CONTENT AREA.
SO I'M GOING TO DIG INTO THIS IN A MINUTE.
WE'LL SPEND MORE TIME ON POLICIES AND THEIR CONSIDERATIONS IN OUR AUGUST 8th PROGRAM, BUT FOR RIGHT NOW I'LL SAY THIS -- THE SUPREME COURT IN ITS INTERPRETATIONS OF ACCESS TO INFORMATION, SAYS IDEALLY IF THE LIBRARY IS GOING TO BE LIMITED PUBLIC FORUM FOR THE RETRIEVAL OF INFORMATION, THEN YOU WOULD HAVE NO BARRIERS TO ACCESS.
WHAT WE KNOW IS THAT WE DON'T HAVE ENDLESS MONEY AND WE DON'T HAVE ENDLESS SPACE.
SO WE ARE ALLOWED TO STIFLE ACCESS BASED ON OBJECTIVE CRITERIA THAT ARE UNAVOIDABLE, LIKE MY LIBRARY CAN'T BE OPEN 24/7, AND THE MEETING ROOMS IN THE MIDDLE OF A LIBRARY, SO I CAN'T GIVE YOU ACCESS TO IT WHEN THE LIBRARY IS CLOSED.
BUT THAT HAS TO BE EVENLY APPLIED ACROSS CONTENT AREAS, WHICH MEANS THAT ASKING, IS THIS A POLITICAL EVENT, SAYS THAT I'M GOING TO BAR ACCESS BASED ON THE CONTENT OF THAT MEETING.
AND THE CONTENT OF THAT MEETING IS NONE OF MY BEESWAX.
IF I'M GIVING MEETING ROOMS -- IF I'M MAKING MEETING ROOMS AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC FOR PUBLIC USE.
>> MARGO, IF A MEETING ROOM POLICY SHOULD BE COUNTED AGNOSTIC, SHOULD RAY HAVE ASKED THE PATRON FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE NATURE OF THE MEETING?
>> NO.
MY FAVORITE MEETING ROOM POLICIES HAVE A CHECKLIST ESSENTIALLY THAT SAYS, THESE ARE THE THINGS THAT AREN'T ALLOWED TO HAPPEN IN THE MEETING ROOM.
SOMETIMES THEY'RE LIKE NO DRUMS, NO NOISES THAT CAN BE HEARD FROM THE REST OF THE LIBRARY.
OR NO CANDLES OR DIFFUSERS, NO PAINTS.
THAT SORT OF TAKES CARE OF THE ASKING WHAT THE NATURE OF THE MEETING IS, BECAUSE A LOT OF TIMES WHEN I PUSH ON A LIBRARY ABOUT WHY THEY'VE INCLUDED THE QUESTION, WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO BE DOING IN THIS MEETING, THEY SAY OH, BECAUSE WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IT FITS OUR POLICY OF WHAT CAN BE DONE IN THIS ROOM.
IF YOU JUST INCLUDE THE POLICY WITH AN AGREEMENT FORM THAT SAYS, I'M NOT GOING TO DO ANY OF THAT STUFF, THEN THAT'S PRETTY GOOD ENOUGH.
>> SO THIS STUFF IS PRETTY COMPLICATED, AND I SEE A LOT OF QUESTIONS.
I'LL JUST REMIND EVERYONE IN OUR AUGUST 8th SESSION WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON POLICIES, AND WE'LL TAKE A CLOSE LOOK AT THIS POLICY.
>> CAN I JUST GIVE THE ONE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BUSINESS AND NONPROFIT?
>> OH, YEAH, PLEASE.
>> THANKS.
SORRY.
SO WHEN I SAY OBJECTIVE AND EVENLY APPLIED, AND ALSO UNAVOIDABLE, IF YOUR MEETING ROOM IS IN HEAVY USE AS A COMMUNITY ROOM, YOU CAN SAY, YOU CAN START TO LIMIT ACCESS BASED ON ORGANIZATIONAL TYPE.
LIKE SOLICITING OR COMMERCIAL USE.
THE CONSTITUTION DOES NOT GIVE -- LET ME RESTATE.
LEGAL OPINION IN THE PAST HAS NOT ALWAYS GIVEN BUSINESSES AND COMMERCIAL USE THE SAME WEIGHT AS OTHER COMMUNITY USES.
NOR HAVE THEY GIVEN THEM THE SAME PROTECTIONS IN TERMS OF FREEDOM OF SPEECH AND ACCESS.
THERE HAVE BEEN RECENT COURT OPINIONS THAT MIGHT SWING THE OTHER WAY.
BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, IT HAS BEEN ACCEPTABLE FOR AN INSTITUTION TO SAY, I'M -- WE ARE -- WE HAVE ONLY SO MANY HOURS, WE'RE GOING TO LIMIT ACCESS TO OUR BULLETIN BOARD, OUR DISPLAY CASES, OUR MEETING ROOMS, FIRST TO COMMUNITY NONPROFITS, AND THEN TO LOCALLY OWNED BUSINESS.
OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO THERE IS SOME SCALE, THERE'S SOME GRAY AREAS THERE WHERE YOU CAN RESTRICT COMMERCIAL USE IF THERE'S A REASON.
BUT THAT REASON HAS TO BE UNAVOIDABLE.
>> SO SOMEONE ASKS, WHAT ABOUT HAVING TO DIG DOWN A BIT TO FIND OUT IF SOMEONE IS TRYING TO RUN THEIR BUSINESS OUT OF THE FREE MEETING ROOM?
SO IF YOU HAD A POLICY THAT SAID ONLY NONPROFIT USE, AND YOU GAVE A VALID LEGAL REASON, WOULD YOU JUST ON YOUR APPLICATION HAVE A BOX WHERE THEY WOULD CHECK THAT IT'S NOT FOR BUSINESS USE?
>> YEAH.
I MEAN, IT'S JUST LIKE YOU -- YOU HAVE A PATRON BEHAVIOR POLICY SOMETIMES PEOPLE DON'T FOLLOW YOUR PATRON BEHAVIOR POLICY, RIGHT?
AND THEN WHEN YOU -- AND YOU DON'T ALWAYS KNOW ABOUT IT UNTIL THEY GET CAUGHT AND THEN YOU GO, HEY, BUDDY.
YOU GOT CAUGHT.
THIS IS THE SAME THING.
>> SHERRY SAYS THAT SHE DOES NOT HAVE A MEETING ROOM, SO SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THIS.
BUT I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT IT'S NOT -- A LOT OF THESE ISSUES APPLY TO THINGS LIKE BULLETIN BOARDS AND WHO CAN HAND OUT FLYERS IN THE LIBRARY AND THAT SORT OF THING AS WELL.
>> ALSO SHERRY, IF YOU'RE DOING ANY OF THOSE OVERNIGHT PROGRAMS, LIKE THE GIRL SCOUT LOCK-IN, UNLESS YOUR LIBRARY IS THE SPONSORING AGENCY, THEN YOU ALSO HAVE TO LET EVERYBODY ELSE DO IT.
OKAY.
SKETCHY INTERNET ACTION.
SARAH IS THE DIRECTOR OF THE PINEVALE LIBRARY.
SHE GETS A CALL FROM A MOM SAYING THAT HER 10-YEAR-OLD SON SAW SOMEONE LOOKING AT INAPPROPRIATE PORNOGRAPHIC CONTENT ON THE COMPUTER A COUPLE DAYS AGO.
HE'S VERY LOQUACIOUS CHILD.
BY HIS DESCRIPTION, THE MOM KNOWS THAT IT WAS MR. SUTHER LBD WHO IS WELL-KNOWN IN THE COMMUNITY AND ALWAYS ON THE LIBRARY COMPUTERS.
SHE DEMANDS THAT SARAH TAKE ACTION TO MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN.
SO THERE ARE LIKE A MILLION DIFFERENT QUESTIONS WE CAN ASK ABOUT THIS.
BUT DO PATRONS HAVE A RIGHT TO VIEW PORNOGRAPHY ON PUBLIC ACCESS COMPUTERS IN THE LIBRARY?
SOMEBODY ASKED, DO THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO BRING A HUSTLER MAGAZINE?
YES, DO THEY HAVE THE RIGHT TO WAVE IT AROUND?
MAYBE NOT, DEPENDING ON YOUR PATRON BEHAVIOR POLICY.
ALL RIGHT.
SO THE ANSWERS ARE GETTING AT THAT SPREAD OF ANSWERS WHICH EXISTS IN THE WORLD OF LIBRARY LAW AND OPINION.
SO I'LL SAY THIS, IT IS A LITTLE DEPENDENT ON THE LIBRARY'S POLICY.
PORNOGRAPHY -- WHAT IS ILLEGAL IS ALWAYS ILLEGAL, PERIOD.
STATE LAW IS WHO DETERMINES WHAT IS INTENTIONAL MINOR ENDANGERMENT AND UNINTENTIONAL MINOR ENDANGERMENT.
SO IN NEW YORK, UNLESS YOU SAY TO THE KID, HEY, KID, COME OVER AND SEE WHAT I'M SEEING, OUR STATE COURT HAS SAID THAT KID COULD AVERT THEIR GAZE.
SO IT WASN'T A CHILD ENDANGERMENT.
OTHER STATES ARE DIFFERENT.
SO THAT IS LIKE A STATE LAW THING.
HERE IS THE OTHER THING ABOUT PORNOGRAPHIC CONTENT ON PUBLIC ACCESS COMPUTERS.
THERE WAS A SUCCESSFUL SUIT ABOUT 12 YEARS AGO NOW, BY THE EMPLOYEES OF THE HENNEPIN COUNTY LIBRARY SYSTEM SAYING THAT THE BOARD AND ADMINISTRATION SIDING WITH PATRON PRIVACY -- PATRON ACCESS TO PORNOGRAPHY CREATED A HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT FOR THE WORKERS THERE, FOR THE LIBRARIANS.
AND THAT ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T ADEQUATELY PROTECT WORKERS FROM HAVING TO VIEW PORNOGRAPHY THEMSELVES WHILE AT WORK.
SO THERE IS A VERY REAL TENSION HERE, AND THIS DOES NOT HAVE A BLACK AND WHITE ANSWER.
IF THE ONLY CONSIDERATION WAS CAN AN INDIVIDUAL LOOK AT PORNOGRAPHY, CAN AN ADULT INDIVIDUAL LOOK AT PORNOGRAPHY IN THE UNITED STATES, THE ANSWER IS YES.
EVERYTHING ELSE COMES IN CONTACT WITH THE PHYSICAL SPACE, THOSE PUBLIC ACCESS COMPUTERS ARE SITUATED IN WHO IS FORCED TO LOOK AT THOSE PUBLIC ACCESS COMPUTERS BECAUSE OF PATRONS, AND HOW THIS MIGHT COME UP AND INTERACT WITH OTHER PATRONS USING THE LIBRARY AS WELL AS STAFF MEMBERS WORKING IN THAT LIBRARY.
SO, YES, YOU GUYS DID ALL OF THE ANSWERS.
THEY'RE ALMOST ALL RIGHT.
>> WHAT DETERMINES WHETHER PORNOGRAPHY IS LEGAL OR NOT, OR IF IT'S ILLEGAL/OBSCENE?
>> INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT, OBSCENITY, WHAT ELI IS GETTING AT IS THAT THE COURTS HAVE ALWAYS HAD A HORRIBLE TIME DEFINING WHAT IS OBSCENE OR PORNOGRAPHIC.
WE ALL AGREE THAT IF SOMEONE APPEARS TO BE OR IS STATED TO BE BOTH, SO BOTH PERCEIVES TO BE AND STATED TO BE, UNDER THE AGE OF 18 AND THEY ARE ENGAGED IN ANY EXPLICITLY SEXUAL ACT, THAT IS LEGAL -- ILLEGAL AND CONSIDERED CHILD PORNOGRAPHY, PERIOD.
SO THE INDIVIDUAL DOESN'T HAVE TO BE UNDER THE ABLE OF 18, THEY JUST HAVE TO BE PERCEIVED OR MARKETED TO BE UNDER THE ABLE OF 18 FOR THAT TO BE ILLEGAL.
NEXT, THERE'S -- WHEN ASKED WHAT OBSCENITY IS, THIS INTERACT WITH THE INTERNET IN FUNNY WAYS.
WHEN THE COURTS WERE ASKED TO DEFINE OBSCENITY AND PORNOGRAPHY, THEY SAID, AH, GEEZ, GUYS, WE CAN'T DO A SUPER GOOD JOB OF THIS BECAUSE AB IS GENERALLY DEFINED AS LOCAL -- OBSCENITY IS GENERALLY DEFINED AS LOCAL MORES.
WHATEVER THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE LIVING LOCALLY SAY IS OBSCENE, THAT GENERAL CONSENSUS THEN IS WHAT IS OBSCENITY.
WHEN IT COMES TO PRINT PUBLICATIONS AND THE INTERNET, THE COURT SAYS THEY CAN NO LONGER USE THAT DEFINITION BECAUSE WHAT IS OBSCENITY IN LILLYDALE WILL BE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT IS OBSCENE IN NEW YORK CITY.
SO THIS SORT OF GENERAL CONSENSUS IS OUT THE WINDOW.
SO IT CONDITION BE USED AS A DEFINITIONAL STATEMENT.
SO ALL I WILL SAY IS, THEY DO SEEM TO HAVE LIKE A HARD CORE PORN IS BAD, BUT WITH A LOT OF THESE THINGS IT WILL REFER TO YOUR LOCAL POLICY.
AND WE CAN TALK ABOUT PATRON BEHAVIOR POLICIES AND HOW TO GET AROUND SENORSHIP ISSUES WHEN IT COMES TO PATRON BEHAVIOR, AND STAFF ETHICS AND STAFF PROTECTIONS IN OUR NEXT SESSION.
>> IN THE CHAT BOX HERE, PEOPLE ARE ALREADY ANSWERING THE NEXT QUESTION, WHICH IS SHOULD SARAH LOOK AT THE BROWSER HISTORY TO INVESTIGATE THE BEHAVIOR OF THE PATRON?
AND WHAT I'M SEEING IS A LOT OF PEOPLE SAYING NO, DON'T KEEP THE BROWSER HISTORY.
AS A FOLLOW-UP QUESTION I'VE NOTICED THAT A LOT OF LIBRARIES HAVE SIGN-IN SHEETS FOR THEIR PUBLIC USE COMPUTERS.
SO I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO KNOW, DO YOU ALL HAVE SIGN-UP SHEETS WHEN SOMEONE WANTS TO USE THE PUBLIC COMPUTER?
IF SO, HOW LONG DO YOU KEEP THEM?
IF IT'S ALL DONE WITH SOME SORT OF ONLINE SOFTWARE, DOES THAT TRACK IT?
I'M SEEING A LOT OF NOS TO THAT TOO.
>> ALMOST EVERY LIBRARY I'VE USED HAD A SIGN-IN SHEET FOR COMPUTERS.
EVERY TIME I WAS LIKE, GUYS, THIS IS SO WEIRD.
>> I THINK IT'S -- IN MY EXPERIENCE IT'S VERY COMMON.
>> IT'S SUPER COMMON.
AT LEAST IN MY EXPERIENCE AS WELL.
AND IT IS THE FIRST PLACE I REALIZED I COULD -- YEAH, WELL, A PERSON WHO SAYS A LONG TIME AGO, I'M KIND OF OLD.
[LAUGHTER]
I THINK -- IT'S WHERE I LEARNED I COULD WRITE A PREFERRED NAME AND NOBODY WOULD NOTICE.
HERE IS OUR NEXT QUESTION.
WHAT IS ONE EXAMPLE OF SOMETHING THE LIBRARY COULD DO TO BUILD A CULTURE THAT RESPECTS PATRON PRIVACY SO HER CONVERSATION WITH THE PARENT IS A LITTLE EASIER?
THERE'S LIKE A LOT OF THINGS HERE, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WE DIDN'T INCLUDE IN OUR SLIDE DECK WAS, LIKE, HOW DO YOU EVEN KNOW IT WASN'T JUST HEALTH INFORMATION?
LIKE, A KID WALKING BY SOMEONE LOOKING AT A WEB MD ABOUT PROSTATE CANCER MAY THINK THE INDIVIDUAL IS LOOKING AT PORN.
THE EASIEST ANSWER KIND OF LIKE ONLY HAVING LIBRARY USE IN YOUR MEETING ROOM, IS HAVE SEPARATE ADULT CHILDREN AREAS, DOES MAKE IT EASIER.
I LOVE ARRANGING THE SPACE SO COMPUTER SCREENS ARE NOT EASILY VISIBLE TO OTHER PATRONS.
IF YOU'RE IN A LIBRARY, A LOT OF -- THE RURAL LIBRARIES I'VE WORKED WITH, THE LIBRARIAN HAS FELT IN THE PAST THAT THEY SHOULD HAVE ALL THE COMPUTERS FACING -- ALL THE COMPUTER SCREENS FACING THE CIRC DESK SO THEY COULD MAKE SURE PEOPLE WEREN'T VIOLATING THE COMPUTER USE POLICY.
I FEEL AS THOUGH THIS IS OPENING A CAN OF WORMS THAT YOU WOULD PREFER TO LEAVE CLOSED.
>> GENERALLY YOU WANT TO AVOID PUTTING YOURSELF IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU'RE MAKING DECISIONS ON CONTENT.
AND AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE YOU WANT TO AVOID BEING PUT INTO A SITUATION WHERE, FOR EXAMPLE, A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER MIGHT COME AND WANT TO LOOK AT THE HISTORY OF THE INTERNET BROWSER.
SO WHEN WE TALK -- WHEN WE ASK THESE QUESTIONS, WE'RE SUGGESTING THAT YOU LOOK AT STRUCTURAL WAYS TO TURN SOME OF THESE GRAY AREA AWKWARD THINGS MORE BLACK AND WHITE.
BUT WE ALSO ASKING ABOUT CULTURE BUILDING AS WELL.
THERE'S KIND OF -- IT'S TWO HEADS OF THE SAME COIN.
YOU CAN STRUCTURALLY TO MAKE THINGS EASIER, BUT YOU'RE ALSO BUILDING UP THE EXPECTATION IN YOUR LIBRARY FROM THE PEOPLE WHO VISIT IT THAT PRIVACY IS SOMETHING THAT YOU VALUE.
WERE THERE ANY COMMENTS IN THE CHAT BOX WHICH SPOKE TO CULTURE BUILDING RATHER THAN STRUCTURAL SOLUTIONS?
ING WHAT REALLY IMPORTANT IS THAT YOU ARE -- WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT IS THAT YOU ARE SAYING OFTEN AND IN MANY FORMATS TO YOUR BOARD, YOUR FUNDERS, YOUR LEGISLATORS, PARENTS, STAFF, VOLUNTEERS, AS OFTEN AS YOU CAN, REITERATE THE POINT THAT YOUR LIBRARY VALUES THE RIGHTS OF THE INDIVIDUAL, VALUES PRIVACY, CONFIDENTIALITY, INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM, SO WHEN THESE AWKWARD THINGS COME UP, THE EXPECTATION IS AT A VERY DIFFERENT LEVEL.
>> YEAH.
ONE OF THE THINGS ABOUT PERMISSION SLIPS FOR PARENTS THAT HAVE SORT OF AN EXPLAINER ABOUT HOW FILTERING WORKS, THIS IS ONE ISSUE, WE'LL AGAIN GET INTO INTERNET USE POLICY AND COMPUTER USE POLICY IN OUR NEXT SESSION IN MORE DETAIL, AS WELL AS THE POLICIES THAT WE HOPE LIBRARIES WILL DRAFT IF THEY DON'T ALREADY HAVE THEM, AND IF YOU DO HAVE THEM, EXPLORE FOR THOSE GUIDELINES LIKE, AM I ACTUALLY BROADENING ACCESS TO FIRST AMENDMENT PROTECTED SPEECH, OR AM I UNNECESSARILY LIMITING IT BASED ON THINGS LIKE AGE, WHICH BOTH THE SUPREME COURT AND THE ALA HAVE ALREADY ROUNDLY DISMISSED AS AN APPROPRIATE LIMITER TO INFORMATION.
SO CHALLENGE LIBRARY MATERIALS, MEETING ROOM/BULLETIN BOARD/DISPLAY CASE, ENTITY AND WIRELESS USE, CONFIDENTIALITY OF PATRON RECORDS, AND RIGHTS OF MINORS.
WE'RE CALLING OUT RIGHTS OF MINORS SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE EVEN IN THE CHILD PROTECTION ACTS AROUND INTERNET USE, THE SUPREME COURT IS VERY CAREFUL TO SAY THAT A CHILD OF ANY AGE STILL NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO ACCESS INFORMATION THAT IS LEGAL FOR THEM TO ACCESS.
AND WHEN CHILDREN HAVE TAKEN INSTITUTIONS TO COURT OVER FILTERING, BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO ACCESS INFORMATION ON LGBTQ HEALTH, BECAUSE THE FILTERING SOFTWARE FILTERED THAT OUT, THEY'VE WON IN SCHOOL DISTRICTS -- AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS LOST IN THAT AS WELL DID FILTERING SOFTWARE.
SO PLEASE BE AWARE THAT RIGHTS OF MINORS ARE REAL, AND ARE PROTECTED, BECAUSE I'M SEEING A LOT OF ACTION THAT WOULD WORK AGAINST THE PROTECTED RIGHTS OF INDIVIDUALS UNDER THE ABLE OF 18.
ALL RIGHT.
AND THEN IF YOU DO INTEND TO COME TO OUR NEXT SESSION, IT IS ON AUGUST 8th, WE'LL FOCUS SPECIFICALLY ON POLICIES AND POLICY LANGUAGE, WE HOPE THAT YOU WILL COME TO THAT SESSION WITH LOCAL INFORMATION, SO DOES YOUR LOCAL STATE, LOCAL GOVERNMENT, OR LIBRARY SYSTEM HAVE SPECIAL ALLY OUNCES OR PROTECTIONS FOR RECORDS OR SPECIAL EXCEPTIONS THAT WORK AGAINST THAT?
AND REMEMBER TO SHARE WITH US HOW YOU FOUND THAT INFORMATION, WE NEED TO DO A REALLY GOOD JOB OF HELPING EACH OTHER FIND INFORMATION INDEPENDENTLY AND CHECK IN ON ONE ANOTHER'S WORK.
AND THEN WE ALSO HAVE THIS LEARNER GUIDE, IT HAS SOME OF THOSE HOMEWORK QUESTIONS.
IT HAS -- DO WE HAVE RESOURCES LOOKING AT SOCIAL JUSTICE AND INTELLECTUAL FREEDOM?
SARAH, I DON'T RIGHT NOW, THAT SWEET INTERSECTION, WE DON'T, BUT I WANT TO FIND MORE.
IF YOU FIND SOME, SEND THEM ON.
BECAUSE I WOULD LOVE THAT.
BUT HERE'S THE LEARNER GUIDE, USE IT AS YOU WILL, THE HOMEWORK QUESTIONS ARE THE ONES THAT WE REALLY HOPE THAT YOU'LL CHECK OUT BEFORE OUR NEXT SESSION.
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS?
I KNOW WE ONLY HAVE THREE MINUTES LEFT.
TWO MINUTES LEFT.
>> THAT'S AMAZING, YOU GUYS.
THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS THAT CAME THROUGH, THERE WAS A GREAT QUESTION ABOUT WHETHER THEY SHOULD POST THEIR QUESTION INTO CHAT OR IF THEY SHOULD FOLLOW UP IN AN EMAIL.
AND I WANT TO ENCOURAGE YOU, AS YOU LEAVE, WE'LL SEND YOU TO A SHORT SURVEY THAT WILL REALLY HELP ELI AND MARGO THINK ABOUT THE NEXT SESSION AND IN THERE THERE'S AN OPEN-ENDED SPOT THAT ASKS WHAT ABOUT THIS IS STILL MUDDY FOR YOU, FEEL FREE TO USE THAT OPEN-ENDED QUESTION TO POST ANY AND ALL OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU STILL HAVE, AND THAT WILL DEFINITELY HELP US PREPARE FOR AUGUST.
ON THE NEXT SLIDE THEY ALSO HAVE PROVIDED THEIR EMAILS, SO IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO ALSO REACH OUT TO THEM I MENTIONED IF YOU WANT TO KEEP A CONVERSATION GOING WITH THE REST OF YOUR COLLEGES ON TWITTER WITH THE #WJWEBINAR YOU CAN, TWITTER WAS DOWN DURING THIS WEBINAR, HOPEFULLY WE'LL PICK BACK UP ON THERE.
I WILL SEND YOU ALL AN EMAIL LATER TODAY, ONCE THE RECORDING IS POSTED.
FEEL FREE TO SHARE IF THERE ARE FOLKS ON YOUR TEAM OR IF YOU WANT TO GET YOUR BOARD ENGAGED IN THIS CONVERSATION BETWEEN NOW AND THEN, YOU CAN VIEW THE RECORDING AND HAVE THAT DISCUSSION LOCALLY.
THIS IS A GREAT, WE LOVE TWO-PART OR THREE-PART SESSIONS BECAUSE IT HELPS YOU ALL TO BUILD AND APPLY WHAT YOU'RE LEARNING.
AND AS YOU'LL SEE IN THE GUIDE, THERE ARE SOME WAYS TO BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT WHICH OF YOUR POLICIES YOU WANT TO WORK ON, SO MAYBE START TO THINK ABOUT THAT AND MARGO AND ELI CAN HELP US DIVE DEEPER IN A MONTH.
SO THANK YOU SO MUCH TO BOTH OF YOU, THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND VERY FASCINATING STUFF THAT WE ALL ENCOUNTER EVERY DAY IN OUR WORK AND LIBRARIES, SO VERY VALUABLE, THANK YOU SO MUCH.
>> YOU BET.
THANK YOU, JENNIFER.
AND THANKS EVERYONE FOR ATTENDING.
WE HOPE TO SEE YOU AUGUST 8th.
>> THANKS, GUYS!
>> FANTASTIC.
OKAY.
AS YOU ALL LEAVE YOU'LL GO TO THAT SURVEY, IF YOU HAVE TO GET BACK ON YOUR DESK, KNOW THAT I'LL SEND YOU THE LINK IN THE EMAIL TO THE SURVEY AS WELL, AND I WANT TO GIVE A SPECIAL SHOUT OUT AND THANK YOU TO BOTH ARSL AND TO LIBRARY JOURNAL FOR COLLABORATING WITH US ON THIS LEARNING OFFERING AND WE'LL BE IN TOUCH IN A MONTH.
THANK YOU ALL.