We are going to go ahead and get our recording started, and I am so excited to bring back to the Webjunction Webinar programming Bonnie McKewon who comes to us from the state library of Iowa. She does lots of fantastic work with many, happy rural libraries. I will take note. Welcome and thank you very much, Bonnie, for being here again. >> Thank you Jennifer. I am glad to be back with you at Webjunction. In my work with the state library of Iowa I contribute a good deal of staff training, and over the years I have developed a fondness for library board education as well. I last joined Webjunction about a year ago, and I am glad to be back with this topic. Just a note, also, that I've been employed by boards myself. I am sure like many of you are. I was a director of Spencer public library here in Iowa some years ago. I was also the director of one of Iowa's regional library systems. Employed then by a regional library board. So from those experiences and continuing now with the state library and working with local library boards providing board development training, my perspective comes from both sides of the board table so to speak. I see these points as the building blocks to building a learning culture with our library boards. Some of these things from our discussion today you are probably already doing, no doubt. If you are not doing them these will be easy adjustments to make. I think that these methods can be pretty universally applied to boards in cities large and small. I hope that you will see things in today's discussion that you can begin doing, and by all means with each segment be sure to share and chat with us what you are already doing. I like to tell audiences that your stories add to my story-telling, so that's just kind of selfishly motivated on my part, also. So this phrase, a culture of, and we can fill in the blank, is really a very trending phrase right now, I think. We see this expression. We hear this expression I think across many circumstances. Schools are needing a culture of safety and public venues everywhere are anxious for a culture of civility. So then for us I think it's important to try to build a culture of learning that extends beyond our staff and comes inside the boardroom as well and reaches the library trustees. So for me to help build this culture of learning from library to library we really need to help trustees move away from thinking of board education as a burdensome thing. Instead let's move them towards seeing board education as a logical and actually necessary aspect of their trusteeship. So this is what a learning culture looks like for me. These are the characteristics of it. It has to be understood as an expectation. It really has to become a strategic priority. I believe our boards need to find ways to build in accountability into the process. These approaches will help ensure, I think, that board education becomes baked into the cake. There is another trendy expression right now. Actually ideally I hope when these board education events are going on, I hope that there is a fun factor. That's always a good thing. These are trustees you see in these photos. This is from a board program. I conducted it in Milford, Iowa. They were all good sports about grabbing a goofy hat or a mask and stepping inside a photo booth. So it was a great icebreaker. As much as we try to ensure those other things I just mentioned, I think that we do need to find the fun in any kind of training, whether for staff or for boards. That's always a good goal. When I found this clip art with this quote on it I thought it would serve as a pretty solid segue into today's discussion. The willingness to take part in board education is very much that mindset. There is an attitude, which sometimes needs to be adjusted, right. Mindsets need to be developed. Sometimes attitudes might need to be finessed. Sometimes we might need to be ready with a gentle pushback when we hear this said or something like this. I will Paraphrase some expressions that I have heard over the years from library board members. I sometimes hear, now hold up, state library. I volunteer my time as a board member. I am not a paid staffer. None of us are, so this continuing education thing that you are preaching is kind of impractical for us. That's Paraphrasing a variation on a theme of expressions that I hear, and you may be have heard some of that yourself. The part about being a volunteer is true. We can't argue that point. In addition to being on the library board in your cities and towns, I will wager that many of your trustees are involved in other volunteer activities, too. I volunteer myself. I can always show up at my church chicken dinner for our, you know, for that annual event or our annual spaghetti supper, whatever the meal function is, and I am happy to volunteer and work our church chicken dinner. When I am doing that, when I am dishing up corn, you know, and looking for the last drumstick for somebody, it's just a different level of volunteerism. It's working as a volunteer on a different capacity. When trustees are volunteering in a library board service capacity, and in Iowa our library boards, and I bet in plenty of other states, library boards have a great deal of decision-making authority that's granted by local and state law. So when that's the case, you know, for me there is no shortage of board training topics. When boards are administrative in nature, that means that they are developing public policy. They are overseeing spending public tax dollars. They are doing long range planning. They are often hiring directors and evaluating their director's performance. They are looked to at citizen advocates for library advancements. So for me all of those things connected with library board service when they are administrative in nature, that really leads a library board to a more elevated volunteer commitment. I think those expectations then are very different. So that is my push-back. When I hear reluctance expressed, that's my push-back. I think that in all fairness this level of library board service complete with its civic responsibilities has to be fairly communicated. We have to connect board responsibilities with board education. That's an obligation of library directors and managers. So here's my first way to begin. This is a very early step in building up this idea that board education needs to be known as an expectation of trusteeship, so that very first bullet point on a previous slide that said it needs to be seen and understood as an expectation. I think that, actually, has to start really early. I think that has to start as early as the recruitment phase. When you have library trustee or vacancies to fill, on your library board and you are looking for prospective trustees, before people even agree to serving on the library board, and I know that conversations are happening with prospective trustees. I know, of course, that's happening. But having something in writing like this, a brochure, a flyer, in my experience, I don't see this done very often. Every time that I have shared this with an audience when I have talked about this topic, I get a lot of requests afterwards for copies of this. So you are lucky that you have this embedded in the slide show for today. This is an infill graphic I made with canvas software, and I want to draw your attention to that paragraph bottom right that says commit to continuing education. Again, this is a recruitment piece. It says ongoing board education is an expectation. Our participation in continuing education is a needed and logical commitment. Are we lifelong learners on this library board? You bet your life. Anyone could do something similar and come up with something more clever, but I would just encourage you if you don't have a piece like this ready, Jennifer uses the expression, I really like so much, a back pocket. This is a back pocket piece. You could have ready to give it to people who express interest on serving on the library board, and right up front before they say yes, they know that education is an expectation. So now we have the happy circumstance of trustees, those great citizen advocates who now have become library trustees. They have said yes, and they have joined the library board. Now here's the second way to build up this expectation of ongoing education for them. You, no doubt, are putting together new trustee orientations. You are probably gathering very key documents like recent minutes and agendas, budget spreadsheets. You are gathering all of that into an orientation packet, and you are probably pulling out your by-laws, as well, right. So I would ask you to look at a copy of your by-laws, and look if there to see if there is any reference made to board education. And if not, I would urge you to add it. This is something else that I don't see referenced often in the by-laws that I take a look at, and I think that it's an easy, easy adjustment to make. I will ask you to chime in in your chat space there. Let us know if your by-laws include a reference to board education. I would love to know that. So that's the expectation. Those are two pretty simple tips to communicate that expectation as you are recruiting and orienting new people, right. So my second bullet point on a previous slide said that board education needs to become part of the library's strategic plan. It needs to become a strategic priority. The way to do that is to follow this great example from lorenz public library here in Iowa. This is a screen shot of just a Page of laurens long range plan, and they have included a culture of learning. They call it that even. A culture of learning among library board and staff through monthly updates as well as by promoting continuing education opportunities. So we put it into planning. It makes this a strategic priority. I think in doing this it length a seriousness to it. In putting this into a long range plan, it should also lead the board to then review how they did from year to year. How did they do in meeting this goal? They set for themselves in ongoing education? They will be reviewing that from year to year because they are reviewing the entire planning document to see what has been accomplished in the plan from year to year. With planning, there is also often a connection to policies and to budgeting, actually. There are bound to be things that you want to accomplish in your plan that cost money, so there are bound to be budget implications. I urge boards to, you know, to support the plans that they make through the policies that they adopt and through the financing that is needed to support their strategic priorities. So, you know, as an example if you are doing a summer reading program, and that's in your plan as a priority, but you don't budget money to pay for performers then there is a bit of a disconnect there, right. So likewise if boards decide in policy that, you know, staff and boards will pursue continuing education but there is not a corresponding line item in the budget, to support education expenses, well, that's, that's an equal disconnect. So I love to see a line and a budge for staff and board education. I love to see money connected to it. And I really like the approach that my former regional board had when they were developing their budget every year. They did both of those things, but their idea was once having done that, established a line item in the budget and provided money for it, their idea was, we have already preapproved our staff and board's ability to go to workshops and conferences and to travel to events as needed. Preapproved because they felt that by doing that up front ahead of time, that there did not need to be this month to month request. to go to workshops. To register for things. So I thought that that was a very smart approach. to budgeting. I have one more slide Jennifer, and then I hope that you can tell me what was said about the by-laws part. This is a screen shot from zion public library in Illinois, and it's just a way to underscore that this library is doing exactly that. They are supporting their ongoing education for staff and trustees, that's especially why I like this example. They include staff and trustees in being sure to be compensated for their mileage reimbursement for their attendance at any education events. So Jennifer, were there any, any attendees who mentioned about the by-laws? >> Yeah. The folks that responded said that their by-laws do not include board education. It is included for staff. I am curious, then, to know what you would suggest in terms of thelines where you have seen the intentionality brought to by-laws, you know. Is there a way -- what are the best ways to bring that to -- aside from watching this Webinar, to hear all of your good reasons, what are some ways that maybe staff or other board members or staff would bring that consideration to a conversation with their board? >> How do they make good on -- >> How would they broach the topic? What are good ways to bring it up? Maybe we should have -- it feels like there needs to be obviously some structure around presenting it as an idea. >> A script of some kind, yeah. >> Yeah. This is assuming that there has been some precedent, I suppose. That's what we hope, that there is precedent even without something in the by-laws. We hope that there's been precedent for board education at libraries and so that can become a part of the orientation conversation, I think. I think that that's important, and I think that the directors and maybe other trustees, when the newest member of the board shows up at his first board meeting, I would hope that this could become a part of that welcoming. We're so glad to have you here. These are some of the things that we take a crack at from month to month, and I would love to think this would be part of the script, and the most fun that you are going to have in being on a library board is participating in some of our ongoing education events. Wouldn't that be great if that was a part of the script? That the library director and fellow board members could relay. So I would like to think that there would be a precedent, and there would be some, you know, some experiences, some great events that they would have gone to that they could share and just kind of make that an entree. >> Yeah. Well, the other question that I put into chat was this idea of what one learning activity your board has undertaken in the last year. I think that maybe structuring it so that people know, you know, I think that a lot of learning probably is happening in a lot of boards, but without that sort of formal acknowledgment that it is something that needs to be visited regularly and somebody did say that basic technology was one of the activities that was shared there. I think that continuing to build out of maybe the informal structure that's happening and say, you know, we should build this into our by-laws so that we make sure and do it regularly. That might be working backwards. Let's see, wow, somebody just got great information in here. Sha where I introduced topics of conversation at her advisory board meeting. It was mostly well received. The past meeting it was rewarding to see current members eagerly pick new topics for our sessions. I think that in and of itself, knowing people get their wheels spinning and say oh, this is a learning gap. Grant-writing, budget requesting, three great things happening at the library. Three changes that you would like to make. Staff training. Project ideas. All sorts of different topics surface, and you are going to talk a bit about identifying topics, and that's also in the learner guide. So excellent. I just want to acknowledge there was a question that Lori, I think, put out to the group. If people want to respond to how many hours are your staff required to attend annually, that's, I know, another sort of side question that came through chat, as well. >> Another good incentive always is public library standards. Quite often there is a board education standard. There is in Iowa, and I know that there is in plenty of other states. So that is an incentive. Right? To make sure it becomes part of the culture. I like whoever noted they like to do technology demonstrations. That is just so, so important. When last I joined Webjunction, the topic was towards tech savvy trustees, and we talked about that very thing. Easily done inside the boardroom. If you can carve out just like 15, 20 minutes of your board meeting, when you have a fairly light agenda, there is going to be months where it is not going to happen for you. You will have many other topics to deal with. When the agenda is fairly light. I think another strategy, Jennifer, is to carve out those 15, 20-minute opportunities inside the boardroom at a regular scheduled meeting, and then it becomes pretty subtle. It's not even an, in your face, you know, start your car, we have to drive an hour to get enter. It's not that. I join about 40 library board meetings a year in my district. This is commonly said. I will hear trustees say something like we pay the bill for EPSCO every year but I don't know what that is. and that is said of so many other digital Production, too. So that just tells me that doing product demonstrations are maybe not very commonly done, but I think it's very important to be done. That's one of my favorite tips for inside the boardroom. Those demonstrations of digital Production that your library subscribes to. Maybe fire up is a tutorial from vendor websites. Those are good ways to familiarize your trustees with the products your library subscribes to, and the products that they are likely approving the bills for. Jennifer mentioned the learning guide that we created for this class, and we have listed a number of websites that you can share. I think that's another cool easy thing to share with your boards, to help them to feel more connected with some of these national endeavors. You can share websites, everything from libraries transformed to project outcomes, united for libraries. Your state library or regional website, not to mention take a spin through Webjunction's website. Iowa's standards for board education, we provide a lot of latitude in that standard, and one way that our boards can meet that is our director's distribute articles from various sources. Pew internet research, Webjunction loaded up great articles, as well. And distributing articles at one meeting as kind of like take it home and read about it, we'll come back and talk about it next time, article discussions can be for your boards, what book discussions are for your book groups. It's awareness and conversation about broader library issues. Were there other good tips? >> Definitely. Learning activities, yeah. >> One library said that they did read and discuss a chapter of John Carver's boards that make a difference during each meeting. That's an excellent example. Focusing on advocacy related topics. Someone suggested how to tell library stories to demonstrate value. Obviously advocacy can be a huge learning opportunity for boards. >> Yes. I love that idea of reading a chapter a month or every other month. I have heard that said a lot in Iowa. We have two publications that were forever, we're forever preaching from, and one is the Iowa library trustees handbook and the other is our standards for public libraries. So take those corresponding publications at your, in your states, and even doing a chapter or two at a time of publications like that is another good idea. Still staying inside the boardroom, I mean, that can also involve online learning, which, you know, is all of these things. Online learning for us and for them as board members. Affordable, portable, convenient. What's not to like? Learning online is more commonplace with every passing day. In Iowa for the state library I present a multi-part Webinar series for boards. This is, actually, year two in doing this. These are nine episodes, one a month, and they are stand-alone episodes. So it's not like they are -- they are -- you don't have to, you know, start at the beginning and go all the way through by any means. But what I am finding is that online learning is more appealing for people when people do it together. Online learning is all of these things that you see on the screen. It can also be kind of solitary. Convenient, sure, if we are doing it from the comfort of our easy chair. It's kind of solitary. What I have seen over and over again in the board education that I do online is that when the boards gather together at the library and they fire up a big screen TV and maybe that's how some of you are watching today's Webinar. When people watch it together, the conversation comes more easily. The application of what they are watching comes more easily, too. Jennifer and staff can attest to this. Webjunction has so many great resources and such great research that they are sharing with us on collaborative learning. Visit Webjunction website for some of those resources. Here's a group at Sibley, Iowa, who is doing a little online learning, and you can see that they have gathered together for an online class. Let the learning and the conversation ensue. There are certainly great resources, great sponsors of online education for staff and boards all across the country. PLA, ALA, of course, Webjunction, tech soup, back to the learning guide that Jennifer and I developed. We have linked you to many of those online service providers. So here is, though, a photo that takes us outside of is the boardroom, and I think this can be very rewarding. It can be certainly a very fun thing to do, and certainly very social. Learning outside the boardroom on occasion, well, for one thing it gives you a change of scenery. But it also helps to build up a network of people from nearby libraries who are talking and learning with each other. Boards encounter common problems. I believe they can come together to share solutions. If you can organize, and I would love for you to let us know this as well in chat. If you in your state are organizing an annual board education event in your county, for instance, or maybe adjoining counties, maybe it's done regionally, please let us know that and your experience with that. The photo you see here is a board education event sponsored by northeast Kansas library system last year that I was lucky enough to be a part of. They were all very good sports in playing this adobe game that I had them play towards the end. I think that this is just can be a very effective way for trustees to extend not only their learning but extend their relationships and their networks. So here's another question that we would like to pause for and have you tell us what you have seen as keys to success with board education at your library. While we wait for folks to chime in somebody said that they were lucky to be at one of your regional gatherings of boards. >> Very good. >> It sounds like skagit valley in Washington state does a joint board training for all their libraries about three -- every three to four years. The island county libraries join them, as well. The state hosts that training. Somebody privately chatted with me I will mention in the Berkshire region of Massachusetts, Connecticut, and New York. A community foundation brings boards together periodically for education from many different organizations and nonprofits, which is another great way to learn from others. >> Absolutely. What -- that I -- I love that idea! What a great way for all, you know, citizen advocates of whatever organization they represent. >> Exactly. >> To learn from that. >> Especially in the context of the community you know, I know sort of this idea of collective impact that libraries are intersecting far more with community agencies, so to have all of those boards talk to each other on behalf of those organizations is a huge, a huge collective impact opportunity. >> Absolutely. Great partnerships can come from that. I love that idea. See, there you go. There's -- this is furthering my own story-telling. >> It sounds like Tennessee offers four workshops across the state, and they just started their trustee certification program. >> That's interesting. A trustee certification program. You know Iowa has toyed with that idea, what did I saw? Iowa. Iowa. Iowa has toyed with that idea, but we are challenged in Iowa by the number of libraries at 545 public libraries in the state, and those are municipal libraries. It's a daunting task to think about some kind of a board certification program. We talk about it. >> Yeah. It sounds like your standards do a good job of sort of setting those expectations. >> Yes. I am glad to have it in standards. I think that that's a great beginning. We have certainly talked about it, and I think that it's so impressive when I encounter states that have cracked through that and have made the board education, or board certification a project. I think that that's great. >> So one key to success is, or could be providing learning online, sort of access to that learning online. So obviously, being able to -- especially, I know with this, you know, most states, aside from a few are broad and long, so being able to connect folks online -- I do like the idea of connecting boards across the state in an online format, as well. It looks like the certification program is online, so that's good. >> Super. >> And I think, you know, online education for staff and boards, increasingly that's certainly a key component to success and to building the culture because it can be kind of a difficult thing to make time to travel to state or regional conferences. That can be a difficult thing to do for people. >> Yeah. >> The convenience factor comes in, right? >> Right, and within this idea of -- I posted the online learning, social learning, I just want to emphasize that we know many -- I know, actually, libraries in Iowa, Nebraska, often gather to go, so let's say that there is some sort of online event coming up you know, perhaps a Webinar of interests, inviting your trustees to come together to the library you know, set up the projector. Kind of like your example from that one library with the big monitor. Gather folks together. Then there are folks together learning that -- or having that content presented to them, so it gets everybody on the same Page, but then your conversation, you can even, especially if you are watching a recording, with the board, you could pause it and have that discussion locally, and then, you know, that creates that localization, that makes that learning more valuable to what, whatever is on their agenda as a board. So, or watching even five or ten minutes of a recorded event is a great way to parse it out, kind of like the book, reading a chapter, you could do five minutes at each meeting for over six meetings or, you know is, however that looks. So there is a lot of different ways to customize online learning to meet your face-to-face needs or, you know, asking board members to watch on their own, if their technology, not as technology savvy, what a great opportunity to sort of walk them through some of those baby steps to getting to where they can watch that online by themselves. So really in and of itself online learning provides a wealth of opportunities to bring folks onboard. >> It does, yes. Agreed. So you know with what I said just a bit ago, it can be difficult for people to travel and get out of up to, although it's fun. I have to give a nod to the northeast Kansas library system. They are doing something right because I have heard them, in their 2018 training coming up next week, they are expecting 60 people at one of their venues. That's crazy good. That's awesome. So word of mouth and you know, just building on past success is a great way to encourage board members to get in the car. Turn the key, like we see on the screen. Approaching the last characteristic, then, of a learning culture I urge library boards to build in some kind of accountability factor. Certainly by meeting standards from state to state. That right there is a very good measure of accountability. One way, another way of doing that is by using something like this. Board evaluations. The state library of Iowa has three board assessments on our website. I can show you two of them today. We have used these for years. In fact, we borrowed these, I believe, from Douglas county library system in Colorado. So I am sure that there are others of -- that look similar to this. This one showing here is a self assessment. So this looks at what individuals bring to the table, how involved are they? How willing to express their opinion? How regular are their, is there, is there attendance? But also look at the last couple of lines here that are circle -- circled. I have read issues of state or national library journals over the past six months. There is that article incorporation there, right. I have attended at least two library events in the last year. So putting that into a board assessment on an individual or on a group assessment, this is the second one that we have, while the one you just saw was for individuals to gauge how they -- what they bring to the board table. This one is a full board assessment. That helps to evaluate how the board functions collectively when it comes together, how the meetings are conducted, how does the board fulfill the statutory responsibility. Here again, circled. The board has a method in place for new member orientation and ongoing board member training. The last one says the board annually assesses its own performance, which ought to include its culture of learning. Jennifer circles back to that early question that you asked about how -- what's the conversation entree look like? How do you broach there? How do you get into this even as talking about it? Here's another, maybe another strategy for doing that. a couple more tips. Another way to keep board education front and center is to include an actual line to that effect on each month's agenda. So you can see here a sample agenda with the typical minutes and bills and new business, unfinished business. What if mixed in to the section on reports you begin to include a board education report? And make this a deliberate part of your monthly agendas. Now that's not to say that people will have something to report on each and every month. As we have acknowledged there will be months where your business is pretty heavily dependent on other things that have to take precedence, right? Especially in the budget prepping part of the year. But there may very well be months in your board calendar of events, there may be months where your agenda is a bit lighter, so then you could include some of those techniques that we talked about, and then by putting it on the agenda it's just another messaging trick to say that board education is ongoing and an expectation. It becomes a deliberate -- it becomes as deliberate as any of these other normal items of business. and one more tip, assuming that your regional system or your state library produces a newsletter, encourage your trustees to subscribe to those newsletters that are out there. What you see here is another shameless commercial from the state library of Iowa. This, I happen to be kind of fond of because I write the Monday morning eye opener for the state library, and it goes out statewide nearly every week. It includes frequent news about continuing education, so an easy way to promote training opportunities and to keep trustees in the loop and apprised of just what continuing opportunities are out there. So I am thinking again of your earlier question, Jennifer, where you asked what can be our conversation opener for board education, and maybe just copying, you know, a newsletter like this where the lead article was about a summary of continuing coverage events coming up. That would be a great way to kind of open that conversation. Well, I am sure that you are familiar with this website. United for libraries. This is a division of ALA aimed at library trustees, friend's groups, foundations, also library advocates everywhere. You can spend many happy hours here at united for libraries. I know that there is currently a survey underway at unite for libraries asking what people feel are barriers to serving on library boards. So I am anxious to circle back to the website and to take a look at some of the survey results presuming that we can see them. I have not checked yet. In answer to the question what people feel are barriers to serving on library boards, I hope to shout that no one answers, it's the ongoing education that they tell me that we have to do. I hope that's not an answer. If it is we need that push-back, right. Library directors and managers are in a leadership position at their libraries, of course. You know what, so are board members. Library board members are decidedly in leadership positions themselves. They are seen as such inside the library. They are seen as leaders by the appointing body that makes their board membership official. They are seen as leaders by people throughout the community. For those reasons I think that this is a good quote from President Kennedy to take to heart. Leadership and learning are indispensable to each other. So in wrapping up, Jennifer, I wonder if there are other questions or comments that have been flying past? >> Yes, there definitely was more happening there. There was a request for your assessment checklist. Is that something in a sort of template format that you could share with me that I could post? >> Yes. It's on the state library of Iowa's website, and you will find it under the section for libraries when you go to our landing Page. It's under for libraries, and then you click under trustees. >> Okay. Great. We can get that. I will get that into chat. The -- there was a comment about the Kansas training that is provided to the trustee training that's been hosted. They mentioned that we also feed them, and they must complete annual training to receive their system grants. So I thought well, there is some good incentives for you. >> Food and funding. There you go. That's a double whammy. And that will get them there. That will make them start their cars. >> Oh, my goodness. >> That's great incentive. You know sids that the system in Kansas, they are doing something right because they really turn out for that event. >> Absolutely. >> I hope that you will agree that library managers and library directors and even fellow trustees each for the other can do our part to build up a culture of learning on library boards. You know my goal is that ongoing training becomes a logical and natural and, actually, necessary part of trusteeship when you consider the broad scope of their authority amongst library boards in many states. So I hope that it becomes a very logical part of their trusteeship. I hope that it becomes a strategic priority so that the expectation for board education becomes baked into the cake. There you go. That makes me want to reach through the screen for one of those. >> Those look really yummy. of course it's past lunchtime here in Seattle, so I will try to have lunch first, but that is fantastic. I am so excited to have seen the contributions here in chat, and I would encourage folks with this time that we have remaining to share your additional questions, really leverage each other in any questions that you have to get ideas from the full group. I really want to emphasize that the learner guide is a tool for you all to customize as well. There is a section always at the end of our learner guides around action planning, and hopefully, I mean, I can definitely see some really simple steps to take first to really help to build the intentionality with your trustees. We cannot understate how much libraries are learning organizations. And even just, you know, I know that there are different kinds of trustees. Some may be, you know, are really busy, you know, and they are on the board because they represent another part of the community, and maybe they don't even know about what is happening, you know. They maybe don't come to the library for events, so I would say that inviting your board to really come and be present at some of the programming, you know, your workshops or what a great way for them to see the kinds of things that you are doing to help to support learning for your patrons. So that in and of itself is a good reminder. Obviously the providing of simple access to the newsletter lists that you suggest, I suggest people, if your trustees are not subscribed to crossroads, that's a great way to know what's happening at Webjunction, and definitely I know that Bonnie has at the top of her list of resources your state library or your regional library system. Those folks are the ones that are going to really connect with whether your state has standards, you know, those are going to be some of the shared standards knowing if there are strategic plans in place at the state library level. Hopefully those mention trustee training and learning needs as well. So definitely connect with those folks. If not, at the state level, being able to connect with folks regionally, if you are a stand alone library, see this as an opportunity to really reach out either to other organizations in your community that have boards and share that with your, you know -- we know that libraries do training for different community organizations so why not help support learning for their boards as well and bring, and bring your boards together. Certainly finding neighbors libraries and bringing those boards together. I wanted to really just encourage people to not feel intimidated by having even content or structure to those conversations. Consider it as an open conversation around, a round table discussion. Let's talk about what we want to learn. I think that the example that was shared in chat in terms of the coming up with different topics that could be shared in learning argreat way to do that. Hopefully you are inspired to put action items on your next step list, and we look forward to hearing what learning has happened at your organizations for sure. Any other questions or comments? Any other thoughts that you have Bonnie -- there was a question about whether or not the session will be available later. Yes, I will send you an email once the recording is posted. All of the resources that we have shared in chat, I will make sure those are represented on today's event Page. That link is -- I will put that in the chat one more time. That is really the spot to return to access everything, whether it's the access to the recording or the learner guide or all of those great resources, and thank you to those of you who shared links in chat. It's always great to be able to add additional resources to that list. Thank you very much Bonnie for being here again. As I said, Kendra and I were talking about it's really easy to listen to you. You have a great online learning voice. Thanks for bringing your expertise here again to Webjunction. And again a reminder to folks that we are glad to have been able to collaborate with ARSL on this Webner. They are an excellent place to learn as well. There are definitely trustees that are a part of the association, so I look forward to seeing people in Springfield. I am one of the folks that will be there, so be sure to stop by and say hello if you are there, and if you are not yet, an ARSL member, it's an excellent, an easy and very affordable membership to connect with others in rural and small libraries. Excellent. Thank you to our captioner for today. Again go forth and encourage trustees to join with you as a learning organization. Thank you again, Bonnie. >> Thank you, Jennifer, for having me back. It's been my pleasure. >> All right. Everyone have a great day. Bye-bye.