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THURSDAY: I'm Sold, Now What?
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THURSDAY: I'm Sold, Now What?
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04
A number of themes have emerged in this week's discussions that lay some good groundwork for libraries ready to embark on using Open Source software. One is that OSS provides greater control and flexibility than commercial software. If you are unhappy with one or more areas of the library's computing landscape, then the added control and flexibility that comes with OSS might make these good starting points for an Open Source evaluation. We have talked about Eric Raymond's notion of a developer's itch, and that this can result in a good application because the developer can directly identify with the benefits. The same approach can be used in selecting potential OSS projects. Identifying applications, or functions of an application, which drive you crazy, may provide fertile ground for planting the seeds of OSS.

John has provided a link to the [url http://europa.eu.int/ISPO/ida/jsps/index.jsp?fuseAction=showDocument&parent=news&documentID=1647 ]IDA Open Source Migration Guidelines[/url] and it cautions against what it calls Big Bang Migrations, where everything is changed at once. The guidelines provide a number of scenarios for introducing OSS in conjunction with other systems, such as adding Linux servers to an existing NT domain. Starting with a well defined project, such as whether Open Office could be used to replace Microsoft Office, or whether Linux should power the library's web server, is a good way to gauge how well OSS can fit into the library's day-to-day operations.

OSS is not just about software. See [url http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.11/opensource_pr.html ]this article in Wired[/url] about the use of OSS to foster mass innovation in other areas, such as [url http://www.wikipedia.org/ ]Wikipedia[/url]. OSS participation is much like barn building, everyone can have a role in its success. I suspect that libraries are rarely vehemently opposed to OSS, but the greater challenge is probably overcoming inertia and finding an easy onramp to the Open Source world. The good news is that the communities and developers behind OSS projects are generally accessible and purposely want to be close to their real and potential users. For those not using Open Source software in their libraries beyond some default underlying OSS-based Internet layers, what would help make OSS a real option in more areas of your library? What OSS options would you like to see that don't exist now?
RE: Filtering with Open Source
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
Here's the direct link to Cindy's [url http://www.meadvillelibrary.org/os/filtering/ ]conference[/url] on filtering with Open Source.

And there has been some [url http://www.webjunction.org/do/MessageBoard?method=getMessages&forumId=2136&topicId=50842 ]brief discussion[/url] in this forum about squid guard and dansguardian.

A presentation from the conference site mentions that most people who use these products choose not to alter/enhance them.

Also, Karen Schneider broached the subject in their conversation during our CIPA event in the [url http://www.webjunction.org/do/MessageBoard?method=getTopics&forumId=2138 ]Policies and Practices[/url] forum a few months ago.

Interested folks may want to access these resources as a place to start.

Does anyone know if there are current needs not being met by Squid and Dans?
RE: RE: Filtering with Open Source
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
Whoops, our firewall hiccupped during my post and I didn't see the reply about other OSS filters. It sounds like there are great options out there. With CIPA, is there some sort of language where you can open up content if you present some sort of disclaimer or get some indication of acceptance of non-liability from the patron? That would be the only technical advantage of having something on the desktop but maybe it can already be done with the squid-based tools.
RE: RE: RE: Filtering with Open Source
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
Actually, Art, I was just at a CIPA workshop earlier this week, where filters that did allow that were discussed; I think it might be possible with squid/squidGuard, but I'm not sure specifically how. If you could set up your own "anonymizer" proxy, you could have a button or link on your squidGuard redirect page that would allow the patron to access the blocked site through that.
RE: RE: Filtering with Open Source
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
I don't think that there are concerns with squidGuard and DansGuardian in terms of CIPA compliance, but with ease of use. They're not exactly WYSIWYG applications, and I imagine that their installation and management would be quite overwhelming for the average librarian--not to disparage librarians at all, mind you, but most librarians don't have the time it takes to learn all that's necessary in order to do so, especially in small libraries where there are only one or two librarians on staff.
RE: RE: RE: Filtering with Open Source
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
Hi Cindy, and thanks for the info.

Are there any calls to create a user friendly interface, minimizing reliance on UNIX skills?

Perhaps I'm thinking big here - but maybe that's something that could come out of this discussion.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Filtering with Open Source
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
I am shooting at this blindly but I think Squid or Squidproxy server can be managed via a GUI, web-based interface called
Webmin

[url http://www.webmin.com/standard.html ]http://www.webmin.com/standard.html[/url]

Webmin can be installed during the installation of Mandrake 9.x
and I use it in conjunction with the standard config files.

As an aside, I really think that some librarians (I am one) should consider training themselves in this area.
RE: Let me see if I get this...
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
So you're saying that this application can work with squid to provide a user-friendly interface, that doesn't require knowledge of UNIX?

Sounds dreamy. Is anybody already doing this?

And my next question would be - why not package it altogether?
RE: RE: Let me see if I get this...
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
Webmin allows one to make changes in many of the text files used to configure Apache, Squid, Samba and many other apps.

Many linux/BSD heads do not use any type of GUI interface because it is an inefficient use of processor power. Things like Webmin, KDE, Gnome, and Xandros are "plug ins" to sit upon Linux.

I guess to answer your question. Webmin is available if you want to use it and install it. The issue is choice and empowering the end user to make the decision to use or not use any aspect of Linux. But most cool apps are available with the Linux distros upon installation
RE: I appreciate control, but...
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
I may get flamed for saying this in such a developer friendly crowd, but... emoticon

I like the idea that you can use this if you want to, and I like the idea that librarians should try to learn about all the possibilities. It's the control benefit we were talking about earlier. But what if I said:

I want to use an Open Source filtering software that doesn't require me to know any programming languages, and I want it all to come packaged together in a single download ... that's as easy to install as, say, Mozilla.

I'm not personally saying that - I have no use or need for such a thing - but if I did (and perhaps I'm speaking for the librarian who is interested in what we're talking about, but has little or no time on his or her hands to take it all in, learning piece by piece) what would you say?

It can still be intimidating, in spite of our best efforts to have an open and flexible attitude, is what I'm thinking.
RE: RE: I appreciate control, but...
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
Ed's right, a lot of true Linux geeks tend to look at GUIs as unnecessary baggage. But I think that a GUI interface (like Webmin?) is almost a pre-requisite if a piece of software is going to be used by any significant portion of the computing population.

So far in this week's conversations, Chrystie has consistently been the voice of the above-average librarian who has an interest in open source but is not a techie. (Sorry if I just insulted you, Chrystie.) And since those folks are the ones who will ultimately be willing to try open source, it would be a mistake to advocate omitting a GUI in the interest of purity.

Which means, of course, that many open source apps still have a long way to go before they're ready for the general library audience.
RE: RE: RE: I appreciate control, but...
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
A CIPA filter could possibly be done without a server-side piece at all, most browsers still support [url http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http://support.microsoft.com:80/support/kb/articles/Q160/9/57.ASP&NoWebContent=1 ]DDE topics[/url] and a running application can monitor, redirect, or halt a browser's activities. The application could consult a central list of URLs, or a local file, or some combination of both. There are installation tools that can package up a desktop application fairly seamlessly as well. If you look at [url http://www.angelfire.com/biz/rhaminisys/webspy.html ]WebSpy[/url], it gives a sense of how this can work. A number of libraries used this approach for blocking e-mail for a while in Ontario, the building blocks would need to be revisited but it would probably be easy to install and deploy if the same hooks are still there. It is also possible to have a message box appear in this kind of setup, and then pass through or redirect a URL based on the user's response. We used to present our Acceptable Use Policy this way.
RE: RE: RE: I appreciate control, but...
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
Shedges

I totally agree that a GUI is vital in this day and age. I use Mandrake rather than Debian because of Mandrake's management interface (GUI).

Although it is not my favorite distro, I would even suggest that libraries consider Lindows because it is cheap and easy to install programs. Lindows educational pricing is quite reasonable.

CRH, there is much to be said about ease of installation and use. But at the same time, I think that it is important that we understand the tools we are using. It is kinda like when as reference librarian we gently scold teenagers and college students when they use tools like Google to do their research. They use it because it is easy and they get lots of stuff but are they getting the type of results that would get if they used Lexis/Nexis or Proquest.

Freedom is not "free"
RE: THURSDAY: I'm Sold, Now What?
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
This may surprise everyone here but I firmly agree that the transition has to be "slow" especially on the front end. From my experience, change is not received well by many people. It does not matter if it is Windows ME to XP or IE to Mozilla, some people are going to be upset.

Getting a degree of buy-in from the staff and support from the top is IMPORTANT! Any migration in technology is going to "fail" if the rank and file are constantly complaining.

I would recommend evaluating your staff and their workflow and then deciding who needs what. Do they NEED or WANT Microsoft Office. If they do not NEED MS Office then they will get OpenOffice and training on how to use it. If they need it then one can use Crossover Office by Codeweavers to use MS Office on a Linux desktop.

the important steps are slow but steady movement, buy in from the rank and file, support from the top, and training
RE: RE: THURSDAY: I'm Sold, Now What?
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
Do people even care about the operating system? I doubt it, they just want their applications to work. I appreciate the quality of OpenOffice and the rest, but we really need some library-specific software a lot more. Walt Crawford, and some people on the oss4lib list have talked about an OSS-based, CIPA filter, libraries that are dealing with CIPA must be paying through the nose for apps like NetNanny. The secure public desktop seems to be coming along, we need WIBS so if that can keep going, then it can be a big savings as well. The other area that is ripe for OSS is print management. What about applications that are not in libraries now, there's some wild ideas [url http://webvoy.uwindsor.ca:8087/projects/flow ]

here[/url], it would be great if OSS staked a claim on some new territory as well. (cloaking, now back to lurking...)
RE: RE: RE: THURSDAY: I'm Sold, Now What?
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
Kevin Clarke has just posted a story about the new [url http://www.usrlib.info/story/2003/11/12/1367/8489 ]U Buffalo OPAC[/url], which is another "using-the-OPAC-as-a-starting-point-rather-than-an-end-point" type of approach. I can see the value of new applications, but some of the existing library-specific software is a pretty big undertaking. I think Walt Crawford was talking about maintaining an OSS list of sites more than software development, but then, this gets back to the idea that OSS is not just about software. Print management is interesting, I think most commercial solutions hook in to standard print queues. The devices that take money or print cards must have APIs, you could probably use 3M/NCIP and create bills in the library's circulation system for something like this.
RE: Starting Somewhere
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
I agree with our (lurking again) friend bookerT about developing OSS applications that libraries need and don't have. I'm reminded of sylvar's excellent example earlier (in the week - on Tuesday?).

It seems to me, however, that Mozilla and OpenOffice are easy entry-points into the world of OSS. If you have people trying those, buying into the community idea around them, then perhaps you have more advocates in what djsarge refers to as the 'rank and file' and then you can move on from there.
RE: RE: Starting Somewhere
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
(de-cloaking again, phasers on stun) I love Mozilla and the rest, but when you type in a hostname in a browser, you interact with OSS through DNS, and there's lots of other examples. I have used Mozilla for ages but I don't think of it as my "entry point to OSS" because it has such a large community of use already. I am all for saving money on these things, but the big budgets go towards library-specific software that just plain reeks for the most part (like the ILS and such...) OSS is such a broad topic, and I think there has to be discussions on great software like Mozilla and OpenOffice, but I think we are really using OSS as "freeware" unless we target the applications that are specific to our community.
RE: RE: RE: Starting Somewhere
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
Ah ha! I made you come out. All good points, indeed.

So, who's in? And what to work on first?

CIPA-compliant filtering software?

Something else?
RE: RE: RE: Starting Somewhere
3:01 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Art Rhyno.
(keep those phasers on stun, Scotty: wait for my signal...) Well, like you say, we need to support both mainstream and library-specific OSS projects. For that matter, the fact that an application is "library-specific" doesn't mean that a library won't or shouldn't treat it as freeware. I don't think we can be too hard on library-specific vendors because the library marketplace is measured in millions, not billions of dollars, and I doubt if there are too many late night coding efforts at Microsoft or IBM trying to hatch a MARC editor, for example. I think an application like Mozilla or OpenOffice, or even an effort like Wikipedia, is a chance to say "look, this can work well", and that gives you an opportunity to try to expand the model a little more strongly in your own domain. There is also room for some cross-over, the OpenOffice folks are looking for help with some bibliographic management pieces, and Mozilla has had a fledging Z39.50 project for quite a while now.
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