WebJunction

ms hill

Thank you for the warm welcome. Linux and Open Source software is not easier or harder to use than any other software. It depends on the program and the end user.

Many of the open source programs like OpenOffice.org are designed to be similar to Office 2000/XP. Two of the main Linux desktops (KDE and Gnome) are close enough to Windows that it should not take long for many users to used to it. In short, I believe that many of the skills learned in the windows world can apply to the open source world.

Here is a link to an article in "Information Today" regarding open source - with a section on how libraries are using it, but the article is a little old.

<A HREF="http://www.infotoday.com/it/oct01/poynder.htm">http://www.infotoday.com/it/oct01/poynder.htm</A>

And a link to the site "Open Source Systems for Libraries"

<A HREF="http://www.oss4lib.org/">http://www.oss4lib.org/</A>

They seem to do a good job keeping track of library related open source news, articles, options, etc.

And an article in "Computers in Libraries," Nov/Dec 02, p28: Why Linux Works for Libraries by Paul H. Lewis.

The article is not available online, but here is the abstract copied from their [url http://www.infotoday.com/cilmag/nov02/cilmag.htm ]table of contents[/url]:



"If you think that Linux isn't for libraries, or that it's not really functional, or that it's just plain scary, then read this article. Learn what Linux can do and hear about just how easy it is to work with this "alternative" operating system."

I had this long reply all typed in and when I hit post, I get an error, so I will make this one shorter. I will also try to be careful here as this can be a very hot topic due to strong feelings on both sides of the issue.

I personally do not see Linux being used in public access venues at this time. It is not that Linux and open-source are a bad idea. Both have come a long way, but from my own experience in working with it, there are limitations that would need to be overcome before it could be effectively used.

1. There would be greater technical expertise required in the libraries to support it. Linux (depending on the distribution) does not always detect and configure hardware completely. Much of that is the fault of hardware vendors not writing drivers for Linux or making win-modems and win-printers, but it is still a fact. Most librarians would not know how to deal with a Linux installation gone awry. What do they do if they make a mistake with Lilo and mess up the mbr of their hard drive? Most small libraries simply do not have the technical resources to administer a new technology.

2. Whether for good or ill, Microsoft is the standard in computing today. Most schools, especially high schools and colleges, teach and expect students to use Word and Excel and Powerpoint. Libraries, being in a community resource role, will naturally want to and need to provide compatible platforms. In the 2 years I have been at this library, not once have I had a request for a computer that had an open-source OS on it. Almost all of the requests for computer usage involve Windows based products. The few that don't ask about Mac's.

3. If a library goes to completely open-source, they will lose access to almost all children's programs. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think that there is a version of Arthur, Magic School Bus, Dr. Seuss, etc for Linux. Additionally, I am unaware of any reference programs such as Encarta for Linux. Perhaps those will come, but I don't see them today.

4. At least for libraries with Gates granted computers, moving away from the Windows environment would have a negative impact on our support from The Gates Foundation. In fact, I can't even move from NT4 to W2k without impacting that support.

There are other issues I could bring up, but these are the big ones that popped into my mind.

Having said all of this, I am all for the idea of introducing Linux into libraries on non-Gates computers, assuming that the library has the technical resources to administer it and to train patrons in it. Linux has come a long way and Gnome and KDE are maturing into good desktops. I just don't see it replacing Windows in libraries anytime soon.

Wendell

[url http://schoolforge.net/software.php ]http://schoolforge.net/software.php[/url]

This a good place to start for educational open source games

Thanks for your comments. I am finding this quite interesting. I will make a few responses.

?All of this is true but many libraries are not on dial-up anymore so that the winmodem issue is not quite as bad as it used to be. ?

These were just examples of the technical issues involved. There are other cases, such as video cards, etc. No, Windows does not always detect things properly, but in most cases, you can get support from the hardware manufacturer for the product under Windows. Granted, it has been at least a year since I worked with Linux and I know some advances have been made, but I do remember that one of my biggest issues was getting the printing subsystem to work properly. My point is, there is a higher level of technical know how still required in the Linux environment than in Windows. For years, Linux was the in-thing for geeks and nerds. It is making progress in coming out of that mode, but I am not sure it is quite there yet.

?I would argue that most small libraries do not know what to do with Windows installation gone awry. From personal observation, I would say that many libraries have a hard time supporting any technology. It does not matter if the technology is Open Source, Windows or a change in their catalog vendor. So I guess my feeling is that why spend the money on expensive software? ?

That is quite true; however, the resources for help are much more accessible at this time for Windows issues. Besides Microsoft forums and various web sites devoted to troubleshooting Win problems (Linux has equivalents there), almost everyone knows someone who can do some Win troubleshooting. Most IT departments are geared to supporting Windows. I think the issue is the availability and accessibility of those resources. Of course, if Linux is as successful as some hope, that balance will tip more in the favor of open-source. I agree that software is too expensive. I do wonder at what point that open-source will ever morph into a more money making venture.

?Perhaps I am giving away my age but I believe that many schools expect that students know how to use a word processor, spreadsheet and presentation software. Which OpenOffice.org, Star Office and WordPerfect Suite provide. I learned word processing on WordStar 2000 and WordPOerfect ?

Before moving out here, I did the same job in a school district for seven years. I had 25 campus libraries I had to support. I had a lot of interaction with the technology instructors and dept. heads in that time as we tried to have a unified approach to what the library provided and the curriculum used. At least in that district, everything was geared around Windows and Mac based office suites. That is what the state adopted for its curriculum and textbooks. We even had arguments between the Mac and Windows folks about which would be more useful as the students moved on to college. The Windows side usually won the argument.

Hmm, age? Does starting as a programmer using punch cards on an IBM 360 class mainframe give you an idea? I cut my teeth on Wordperfect for Dos. It was a boon when I had to do college papers using Turabian?.

?I believe that OpenOffice.org is 95% compatible with Word, PowerPoint and Excel. ?

That may be the case. I?m not familiar with that package. I do wonder how people would react when they mention they want to type a resume and instead of the familiar Word interface, they see something different? Some will be fine with it and others may not. I also wonder if it is truly that compatible? One of the things I have noticed about crossing platforms is that usually there are some formatting issues that come up.

?You probably will never have a request for one. It is the applications that people want. To be able to surf the web, type a letter or resume, listen to music. All of that is available on Linux. ?

True, it is and in some cases better. Dealing with the public I do see the importance of consistent look and feel (to follow a web design principle). Windows is so ingrained in the minds of the public that they tend to chafe at anything different.

Out of curiosity and as an aside, has anyone ever developed a CD burning app for Linux that has more of a gui? I remember trying to figure out the one I had and it was quite a challenge to do.

?On this point, I agree. I do not believe that those titles are available on Linux today. Perhaps because they are Microsoft products. However there are many free games for children on Linux. I will look up a few for you.?

I used those as examples because they are on our Gates machines currently. I am glad to see some children?s software being developed for Linux. That will go a long way toward making it more mainstream. Do you know if any of them are educational type of games? How about the quality?

?But what happens when that support is over??

Well, when our support contract ends, NT4 is going to rapidly become a distant memory. Of course people will have the option to replace the OS with whatever they want. I wonder how many will desire to take the plunge and go to a non-MS system.

?that same energy can be directed towards using Mozilla and OpenOffice.?

Well, I am certainly not a big fan of IE or Netscape, but for different reasons. I have played with Mozilla some and like it.

I think the point of all I have been saying is that Linux has a tough road ahead to make a major dent in the MS world. There is a lot of inertia out there to overcome and a very monolithic structure. One thing I have noticed in almost 30 years is that it often doesn't matter how good the technology is. Good marketing and name recognition will often win over technological power. Just look at what IBM did to the computer market when it introduced the PC. I think that if it wasn't for them, Apple would be the predominant platform (well that is a different debate).

Gee, now you are getting me wanting to pull out one of my older boxes and install Linux again just to see how it has come along?.

Wendell

I do agree that open source has a long way to go before it dents the Microsoft desktop. Nothing that we say can change that but it does not mean that we should not set the movement in motion.

My humble request is that libraries consider and test a linux box (Mandrake is my favorite distro). You may find that the children and young adults adapt to it qucikly.

Oh by the way, OpenOffice.org is available on Windows and Mac OSX and you can run Microsoft Office on Linux using Codeweavers.

I do not know about the quality of those children's games since that is not my focus. I believe that TuxTyping was pretty good.

There is a GUI for CD burning on Linux but I do not use it.

I also agree that the best technology does not always win. I am still smarting from my loss to VHS.

Mandrake 9.1 and Red Hat 9.0 will surprise you.

I guess that my purpose in pushing Linux is to break the inertia in libraries in regards to technology. Use Microsoft products when they provide the best value/technology (Grants from the Gates Foundation are a great example.) Use linux when money is tight and the technology is useful.

I am enjoying this, thanks.

Cceller and Wgragg

I am not sure where you are located but I am reasonably sure that you could enlist an local Linux guru who would love to offer your staff training. The one thing about the open source community is that many are willing to openly share tech knowledge.

sfurciniti

There is an open source PC reservation program call WIBS. I have not used it but the Winsdor Library created and uses it.

Yes, Open Office is not a perfect solution for the very complex spreadsheets that Excel creates but I have found that it works most of the time. File conversion from one secret format to another is difficult at best. Which is why librarians should support open formats. So it does not matter what software one is using to create documents, spreadsheets or presentations, it can be opened in any office suite.

What I have tested is a program called CrossOver Office which allows Office 97/2000/XP to be run a Linux box. So if you have received a grant from the Gates Foundation you can use Office on Linux PACs for the cost of Crossover Office

Oops:

Looking at things from the staff side here I doubt that open source material WOULD work. 1 - From the tech side I don't hink we would be comfortable installing/maintaining/offering assistance. I know that our two county system has NO $$$ for any type of training at this point.

ccellar wrote:

"It was suggested that we try Open Office in place of MS Office. But I see too many patrons who experience issues with using Works & Office now - to throw Open Office in the mix would be even more problematic."

Since Open Office is available as freeware for Windows, perhaps it could be offered _along with_, instead of _in place of_ MS Office. That would give patrons who like to learn new software packages a chance to do so.

I have been reading about Linux "winning" over Microsoft in Munich. Linux does provide a cheaper alternative to "closed source" software.

What I hope that libraries do is to consider "open source" software BEFORE they spend scarce dollars on software. For example, there is a gentleman inquiring about PC reservation software. All of the products he mentioned are commerical and closed source. My recommendation is to research WIBS, an open source reservation program used by the Winsdor Library.

Those who are spending a fortune on cataloging systems should explore Koha or OpenBiblio. Imagine the number of Harry Potter books you can buy with the savings.