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Archived from the "old WJ": St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
Archived from the "old WJ": St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:07 PM EDT 8/7/08
This is an archived thread. Please use the new "St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium ... a new beginning" discussion for posts and comments. -thanks!

St. Jerome is the patron saint of writers, journalists, and librarians. After a long career of

preaching under the protection of Pope Damasus (and after scandalous rumors involving St. Paula) he fled to the east, where he and St. Paula founded separate (but presumed equal) monasteries and he wrote the Vulgate (the official Catholic Bible until replaced by the New Vulgate in 1979). He's recorded as having died in 420 but this, he tells me, was strictly to throw people off to the fact that he and Paula had stumbled onto the benefits of good diet and regular exercise.

St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium and Coffee House sits on a side street in a nondescript part of town. I'm pledged not to say where, unfortunately, but--thanks to the wonders

of Internet Technology--you can be there.

Nowadays, Jerry affects a B-movie British accent, a neatly clipped beard, and has a predilection for good scotch. I expect he may be by, now and then, but he and Paula were planning another vacation (southern France, I think, but I'm not sure for how long) and he left me the keys.

The lighting's none too good, there are bookcases everywhere (like in a good, old fashioned, used bookstore) with books, and more books, old books and new books, stacked, scattered and strewn hither and yon. And there is a PC, or two, on a back table.

The chairs are old, upholstered and overstuffed in oxblood leather with dull brass nail head trim. Most of the other furniture is even older, stuff Paula picked up in their travels, so please do be careful. The Coffee House bar is an old oak library circulation desk. You'll usually find me behind it, fussing with the espresso machine.

The food's passably good, the coffee usually even better. You need only ask. (The residuals on the Vulgate were, ah, considerable.)

The fireplace is always lit.

What's the deal you ask?

Oh, sorry, I hadn't mentioned that part yet. Jerry thinks good conversation's fun and asks that we bring up quotes, or ideas, and discuss them at our leisure. Quotes won't buy you a cup of coffee (just ask for that), but they're likely to start off an interesting conversation.

And, I almost forgot, there's that time machine back behind the coatroom--you never know who might be coming by with a comment or two. All I know is that Jerry and Paula have friends everywhere, and everywhen.

You might know some of them, too.
RE: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
So ... who's for a virtual drink? Coffee? Tea?

Something a mite -- make that two mites -- stronger?
RE: incarnation
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Round and round we go and one day maybe we will get it just right. Even so, it is worth the effort to keep on trying. I would be a fool not to ask you to set me up with a double shot of Bushmills!

"What labor it cost me, what difficulties I went through, how often I despaired and abandoned it and began again to learn, both I, who felt the burden, and they who lived with me, can bear witness. I thank our Lord that I now gather such sweet fruit from the bitter sowing of those studies."

St. Jerome, 411 AD

born Eusebius Hieronymous Sophronius 342 AD

(no wonder he prefers to be called Jerry!)
RE: RE: incarnation
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Oh, 'tis true. Roundabout and up and down, eh 'dog?

Double Bushmill's, for sure. Ice or straight?

Jerry's *always* been a bit embarrassed by that name, or so he says. It's sometimes hard to tell what sensibility he's brought with him, what with the centuries flying by the way they have. I do suspect, though, that he forgave his mother for it!
RE: frigerate me
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Ice would be great - I will just drink it fast!
RE: RE: frigerate me
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
But of course ... though considering the New England weather, I might think you've had enough of that. ;-)

So how's life treating you?

<wiping counter>
RE: fresh my soul
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
ahhhh, funny you should ask and funny you should mention New England weather. We are jetting off tomorrow morning at 8 am to spend Christmas week on the islands of St Thomas and St John USVI!

Today I was riding my snowmobile, tomorrow I will be snorkeling with tropical fish!
RE: RE: fresh my soul
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well then, I suspect the rum would be a good choice. ;-)

Have a good trip and see you when you get back -- though it may be that I'll be in Florida then.

Anyone else?

<fiddling with espresso machine>

You gotta tamp the coffee *just right* for this thing to work ...
RE: RE: RE: fresh my soul
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Just noting that I'm away until Jan. 5. Open bar!
RE: scriptorium vs. library
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
ah, my first time learning about a scriptorium. i'll have my usual grey goose martini, up, with a twist. (funny we're all getting virtually sloshed in a room meant for a monastery ...)

btw: what's the difference between a scriptorium and a library?

librarybob and maddog, we miss you around here but hope you're having a wonderful holiday.

for when you get back: is the space for talking about any quote/document/theme? or just jerry's?
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
2:36 PM EST 3/28/05 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
A scriptorium was as was mentioned in another note, is where writing was done. It usually had long tables with lights, paper and pen. Naturally, back in St. Jerome's time it was probably clay tablet and chisel. The Library is where the books and munuscripts were stored and where one could curl up with a good 'script and contemplate the devine. That's my memory of a real live modern day scriptorium and library at St. Joseph's in Spencer MA.

Charlie aka Br. Matthias
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
1:55 PM EDT 4/15/05 as a reply to Charles A. Le Blanc.
As far as I can tell, it's always been Jerry's bar ... and if there's anyone who knows scriptoriums, it's Jerry!

Hi Chrystie -- real life intervened. How are you doing?
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
1:34 PM EDT 4/19/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Things have been *super* busy for me too. We are launching three new versions of WJ in JUne. AZ, VT, and NH are all coming on board. We also have a number of new grants for special projects; many of them touch all 50 states, and beyond! It's exciting - a lot of change happening around here. emoticon

How are things in your neck of the woods?

<i>Have you noticed that even the busiest people are never too busy to take time to tell you how busy they are?</i> ~ Bob Talbert
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
3:16 PM EDT 4/20/05 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Doin' fine.

Reminds me ... that quote mean's a virtual drink on the house. What'll you have?

Our CLUE tournament didn't pan out ... not enough interest. :-(

On the other hand, our Operation Hero program (items for overseas troops to pay off old library fines) seems to be getting a lot of interest.
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
11:55 PM EDT 4/20/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Too bad about Clue, but tell us more about the Operation. I'll have my usual (ggmuwat, for those of you new around here.)
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
11:38 AM EDT 4/21/05 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
One Grey Goose martini, coming up!

Operation American Hero is a local program started by an ex-Army interpretor (and current local chiropractor). She collects things for overseas troops and mails them ... there are donation places in several banks.

Anyway, we had the idea of people donating various items in lieu of paying off old fines. The local food pantry was pretty full, so something along the lines of Operation American Hero made sense -- and since the chiropractor is pretty close to us it only made sense for us to merge our efforts with hers. After all, she knew what she was doing!

It starts in early May and lasts through the month.
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
3:37 PM EDT 6/16/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
How did the program end up LB - and will you be at ALA??
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
12:38 PM EDT 6/27/05 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
We wound up with about 2000 items ... a pretty good total (though I know of nothing to compare this to).

I decided not to attend ALA since my wife has a new job and no schedule flexibility for at least three more weeks. I'd probably have gone today -- there's no particular reason for me to be at work -- except I have board committee meetings.
:-(

I'm always a bit dubious about ALA. It can't -- by design since 1910 or so -- figure out if it is a "library association" or a "librarian's association." Both roles are important, but I don't think they can be done under one umbrella. Part of this is an issue of "workers" versus "management," part of this is a matter of "professional values" versus "institutional values."

But ... others seem to like it.
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
3:12 PM EDT 6/27/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
If only to meet you in person - would have been nice!
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
11:56 PM EDT 6/27/05 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
I am in total agreement with Chrystie -- the thing about ALA that is more important than the sessions is the opportunity to connect the names in our virtual world with faces ... and expressions and gestures and laughter. Maybe next time?
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
5:58 PM EDT 6/28/05 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Maybe so. The virtual community where I host a "Future" conference has occasional "meats" (as they're known) where we get together in real space. It does help to know more detail -- even subconscious details -- about the people you talk to on a daily basis.
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
3:34 PM EDT 6/29/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Speaking of ALA, here's precisely why it's hard for me to take the organization seriously:

http://www.libraryjournal.com/article/CA622341.html

It's ALA's demand that the US leave Iraq. I agree that the war was a mistake -- and I think leaving now would also be a mistake -- but I think ALA's official position is rather more than irrelevent to those of us running public libraries and having to deal with a public that doesn't share ALA's position.

I can see this as the position of a professional association. I can't see it as the position of a "library association" mostly comprised of libraries that are, directly or indirectly, tax supported.
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
6:19 PM EDT 7/7/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Point well taken. It's a huge organization. Every initiative can't possibly reflect everyone.

Still, I think it's very useful to get together in person, and they provide the forum for that, so that's why I love going! I also learn a lot about the stuff I *am* more interested in.

Next year it's in New Orleans. I suppose that's a bit of a trek for you, huh?
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
7:34 PM EDT 7/7/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm stuck on this quotation from Barak Obama's speech at ALA:

We in America "have to change our whole mindset and we’re going to have to start with libraries.”

I agree that it's out-of-scope for ALA to take an official position on Iraq. But I do think that the library association should keep exerting its sizeable influence in ways that are more universal and fundamental to the profession, things that Obama cited, like reversing the trend toward anti-intellectualism, counteracting mass media and advertising, cherishing intellectual freedom and the freedom to read.

Obama won me over when he recited the first line from Goodnight Moon.

"In the great green room there was a telephone and a red balloon and a picture of the cow jumping over the moon."

Are you still serving here at the 'scriptorium'? My drink of choice in Chicago was a tall glass of lemonade with lots of ice. Thanks!
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
11:59 AM EDT 7/12/05 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Oops! Sorry, I was out for a bit.

Lemonade coming up!!!

(I might add that Chicago is still in a drought ... sprinkling though, now, due to the remains of Hurricane Dennis.)

Yes ... there's a long tradition of the good things libraries can and do actually do. I very much think that we need to be the "local intellectuals" at times ... being the "keeper of the books" won't cut it.

Archibald MacLeish, when he was the Librarian of Congress, wrote an essay or two on that very topic.
Re: RE: scriptorium vs. library
2:26 PM EDT 10/18/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
<rushing in>

Hey, maddog, I was invited to beta some new forum software and came across Lars Heyerdahl as another of the testers. I hadn't come across him for a couple years, last when we were both regulars on a KM discussion site out of Indianapolis.

I dunno if you've kept up with him ... his profile says he's back in Norway.
Thor's nephew
7:40 PM EDT 10/19/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Lars has been in and out of Electric Minds over the past few years so I have kept up with him there to some degree. I haven't seen him about recently but I did exchange posts and a few emails with him a few months back. I was aware he was back in Norway.
A new task for librarians
10:25 AM EST 1/4/06 as a reply to < maddog >.
No one's been by St. Jerry's for a while ... so I'll try to drum up some conversation.

There's a new proliferation of self-published books coming out due to vendors like lulu (they'll publish for an author and provide an ISBN number, taking a cut of the price ... quite different from traditional vanity presses). Sometimes, these books are just simply things that publishers, wisely, wouldn't touch. Sometimes, the topics are too narrow for there to be much of a market.

Such books don't show up in our reviewing sources, which is a shame because there are a few pearls among the dreck.

It occurs to me that the library field needs to have a limited-access wiki (or conferencing site) where such books can be reviewed/discussed (if the authors are willing to donate one copy to library reviewers ... the small cost of marketing). I wrote "limited access" because such a site needs to be restricted to neutral reviewers, preferably librarians.

Amazon reviews are, rather too frequently, written by, ah, interested parties. ;-)

What do you think?

And ... if there is already such a site, please do let me know.
Re: A new task for librarians
9:08 PM EST 1/6/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, it took me a couple of days to look up the [url http://www.lulu.com/ ]Lulu[/url] self-publishing site. Whoa, they sure have published a lot of stuff! Fiction & literature (7491), children (1856), sci fi and fantasy (1485), etc. So many wannabe writers --how could you sort through the 'drek' as you say?

Yes, it would be cool to have a non-commercial site to collect titles and reviews for self-published literature. These books lie in the really skinny tip of the [url http://longtail.typepad.com/the_long_tail/ ]long tail[/url]. I like the idea of a librarian-driven mechanism for fishing out the pearls and sharing them with the world.

How many titles do you know of to start with? I have only one, but it would be nice to have a place to share it. This idea is 'viral' reviewing and it would grow as we all joined forces. I'd say I'm interested!

Btw, have you ever posted a review in [url http://www.oclc.org/worldcat/open/usercontent/default.htm ]Open WorldCat[/url]? It's a good place to practice.
Re: A new task for librarians
10:33 AM EST 1/7/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Heh. Titles I know ... I think I ignore an average of 2 e-mails a week from self-published types trying to sell their stuff w/o an independent review. Heck, a friend of mine's son has a fantasy novel ....

I haven't posted to Open World Cat, but then I do have the opportunity to write reviews elsewhere online (a private community) and will soon be doing so for my own library's blog.

But this doesn't really address 1) the marketing problem the self-publishers have and 2) the problem we librarians have separating wheat from chaff.
Re: A new task for librarians
1:27 PM EST 1/8/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
>> Heh. Titles I know ... I think I ignore an average of 2 e-mails a week from self-published types trying to sell their stuff w/o an independent review. Heck, a friend of mine's son has a fantasy novel ....<<

I had no idea. I'll consider myself fortunate to be spared for the moment.

>> I haven't posted to Open World Cat, ... But this doesn't really address 1) the marketing problem the self-publishers have and 2) the problem we librarians have separating wheat from chaff.<<

True, Open WorldCat is not a solution to your proposal, since the records there are vetted and published items. Still, it's an experiment to allow anybody to review materials (and share those reviews internationally) instead of leaving it to the standard "authorities" --Booklist, Choice, etc. I'm wondering how many library staffers have taken advantage of this so far.

I posted your question over in the [url http://webjunction.org/forums/thread.jspa?messageID=24769#24769 ]Readers' Advisory forum[/url] to see if anyone there has heard of a resource for self-published titles. I like the idea of promoting the democratization of publishing --I know there are some gems that don't meet the requirements for marketability and profit potential. So I'm all for creating such a resource.

How to manage it? First, we'd have to come up with some "how to recognize drek in 5 minutes or less" guidelines. Librarians could post titles they thought promising and let other reviewers sign up to receive copies of the book for review. There's some administrative complications here, since you really need to see the hard copy (IMO) for a full review. Who would manage contacting authors and directing the mailings? Anyway, lots to think about to get a project like this off the ground.

Anyone else think this is a cool idea?
Today's Problem/Opportunity
1:49 PM EST 1/18/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
One of the problems facing nearly every library administrator (and I'm tempted to scratch the word "nearly") is how local politics can get in the way of doing the simplest things.

For instance: we got a call yesterday from U.S. Representative Melissa Bean's office because she apparently wants to do a program at the library about the new Medicare drug card program. This is a *good thing* both to the people who might attend (and are 25 miles north of her home stomping grounds) and for the library ... I've never met her and would like to. Who knows when that might be useful, eh?

BUT ... representatives are always running for office (due to 2-year terms) and there are currently seven Republicans in the primary race hoping to unseat her. One of them is a former library board member; another is a state representative who currently lives next door to the library and has been very accessible.

The last thing I want to do is blindside the state rep and get on the bad side of the local politicians, all Republicans of one sort or another (usually not particularly conservative in the social sense). The former board member I'm not too worried about since I know he'll lose in the primary for lack of support.

Anyway, I called the rep and he got back to me a few minutes ago. He said to go through with it for the reasons I mentioned (a public good) ... and I rather suspect he was happy to be kept in the loop.

Message was edited by:
librarybob
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
1:29 PM EST 1/19/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Nice move. Transparency is always appreciated by people, I think. If you let them know what's happening, and that it may affect them, then they will return those favors in kind. I hope you enjoy meeting your state rep - sounds like an honor that she asked to work w/ your library. (Then again - I am not surprised!!)
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
2:25 PM EST 1/19/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Thank you. I suspect she doesn't know this library from Adam ... yet.

On rereading above I see that I'd neglected to mention that we regrouped on the CLUE tournament and had it in late October. It was not bad for a "first try": we made a bit of money and learned things not to do in the future.

We had lots of press coverage ... including photos of the people taking on the various character's: Mrs. White (played by the president of our Friends), Miss Scarlet (our Board president), Mr. Green (the township supervisor), Mrs. Peacock (the county board president), Colonel Mustard (a state representative), and Professor Plum (me).

I happen to own a plum-colored sport's coat, so that was a slam dunk. Representive Bob Churchill rented a safari-type costume, complete with pith helmet and sword. We all had fun doing it.

The games were played in several different rooms at a local mansion, with a three-round elimination.

Now, that said (and I may have said it someplace else!), the bar's open for business.

Message was edited by:
librarybob
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
11:22 AM EST 1/20/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, Professor Plum, I would love to see some of those photos!

This whole CLUE tournament idea is such a creative way to make connections with the library community .. and make money ... and have fun. Maybe we can explore more of the details in [url http://webjunction.org/forums/ann.jspa?annID=50 ]next week's event[/url] in the [url http://webjunction.org/forums/forum.jspa?forumID=54 ]Community Partnerships[/url] forum (shameless plug ;)).
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
10:05 AM EST 2/21/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Well, I don't have any on my own computer, but you'll see Mr. Green accusing Mrs. White ( who is holding a gun) on the third page of this pdf:

http://www.lvdl.org/community/Newsletters/archive/dec05jan06.pdf

Mr. Body, unfortunately, can barely be seen at the bottom. We had to crop this photo rather heavily, so neither Colonel Mustard or I are in it.

Meantime, coffee anyone? It's on St. Jerry.

Might I pose a topic for discussion -- the purpose of library education?
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
11:13 AM EST 2/23/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Education's purpose is to replace an empty mind with an open one. Malcolm Forbes

This is particularly fitting for LIS education because - especially where technology is concerned - there is always something new to discover or learn and apply. You definitely can't get by on "what they teach you in library school," unless it's the part about constantly learning, staying open, and (though it's hard sometimes) embracing chang.

I'll have my usual.
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
2:23 PM EST 2/24/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
One Grey Goose martini, coming up!

I think the *issue* in library education goes back to the choices made in the very beginning ... a choice forced, you might say, by the state of graduate level education at the time.

IIRC, what we now have is descended from Dewey's second attempt at establishing a graduate school agenda. It was relentlessly clerical ... "library economy" was a term he used for it.

His first attempt was at something rather grander. Mindful that each library had its own classification system, he proposed a graduate-level program in what we would likely call "general studies." The idea, here, being to teach people the rudiments of the various "knowledges" they would need in order to understand the content of the books that came across their desks.

This didn't fly ... no university of the time (leastways any he approached) was interested in a graduate-level program of inter-disciplinary studies. I rather suspect the jealousies of the newly-emerging professions were enough to keep them firmly apart.
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
11:37 AM EDT 4/17/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
By the way, here's a link to an article I wrote 10 years ago.

Enjoy!

http://www.lib.niu.edu/ipo/1995/il950129.html
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
9:19 PM EDT 4/19/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, I certainly did enjoy reading your article. Are you writing the sequel: The Road Less Traveled 10 Years Later?

The debate between "theorists and practitioners” continues right here on WJ in the [url http://webjunction.org/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=708&start=0&tstart=0 ]Who Wants to Be a Librarian?[/url] conversation --three pages of some thoughtful, some heated, some funny reflections. A related discussion shows up in the [url http://webjunction.org/forums/thread.jspa?threadID=853&tstart=0 ]How practical is your education?[/url] topic.

How much more complex that issue gets with the introduction of the Internet and all the knowledge contained therein. Have we lost control of the imposition of order as well as the ability to provide guidance? What should we be learning now in library school or on the job? In the intent to lure patrons (customers) into the library, are we moving farther from the ideal of being "distributors of ideas rather than of mere merchandise"?

Mangling your quotation: "“Knowledge about [the Internet] and about what [the Internet] contain are two very different things.”

I'm not sure St. Jerry will hand me a drink for that one, but it is food for thought.
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
10:05 AM EDT 4/20/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Well, Jerry's still on vacation. I think. Hard to say with saints.

Anyway, since I'm tending the house I'm sure that's worth a drink! What will you have?

Thanks for reading the article. It's the only "library issue" one I know of that's online ... you'd have to go to back issues of <i>RQ</i> or <i>Public Libraries</i> for more. I was busily writing in the early 90s and getting published perhaps too easily, but it seemed to me from the lack of response (even indignation would have been good) that no one cared about my particular passion.

Then the web came along ....

I'm not really planning a sequel since I don't see much change. The last thing I had published, a couple years ago, was before the blog explosion: http://www.mindjack.com/feature/12ocvar.html

My writing partner is a sociologist at Ohio University. Right now, we're discussing how online communities have changed due to blogspace ... it's my view that blogs have captured narrow interests at the expense of critical discussion.

But I can surely talk about library issues here. St. Jerry's is a good place for that, in my view, because we can easily bring in historical viewpoints, cites, and such that would likely stifle further discussion for those wanting answers to their here-and-now problems.

Of course, links to St. Jerry's might be appropriate ... your call. :-)
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
4:43 PM EDT 4/20/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I agree with you that blogs may have stilted critical discussion (both online and off) because it's so easy to get all wrapped up in your tiny little blog world - especially if that world is made up of a bunch of people who think pretty much the same way that you do. I enjoy seeing a multitude of perspectives come through on the blogs, and am hopeful that (with our own individual responsibility to civic discouse) they can instill conversation, and not squash it, as we get more used to working with them.

Having multiple voices on the blog helps. Sort of like BlogJunction, perhaps.

I saw a funny bumper sticker once. Will it count as a quote? If yes, my usual would be grand.

Nobody cares about your blog.
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
9:19 PM EDT 4/20/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Time to get another bottle of Grey Goose! No matter ...

Here you go, Chrystie. :-)

Blogs are, indeed, a new thing. It will be a while before it sorts out.

How are things with you?
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
6:53 PM EDT 4/21/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I read your second article when I was first getting involved in online community a couple of years ago. It was a great introduction to the structures and dynamics of virtual interaction.

The blogoshpere piece is a very interesting wrinkle in the cyber community. Although an occasional blog post will collect a long conversational sequence of comments, that is not the norm. I think of a blog as the online soap box --the platform from which to express one's personal opinions and perspectives. I enjoy that energy immensely, but it is not the same as a good old-fashioned "critical discussion." I wrote a bit about that on BlogJunction: [url http://webjunction.lishost.org/?p=47 ]Don't lick 'em -join 'em[/url].

I *heart* St. Jerry's! I've linked to it from BlogJunction and I'm sure I will again. 'Tis late on a Friday and time for a nice glass of (red) wine. Certainly St. J has some interesting vintage in the cellar.
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
7:02 PM EDT 4/21/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I followed your link ... nicely said!

Let's see.

<rummaging on a shelf>

Here we go. A Chateau Pichon-Longueville-Baron, Grand Cru Classe Pauillac (2000) should be adequate.

(Don't ya love the web?)

But what about the library impact?
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
8:11 PM EDT 4/21/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm doing well, LB. Having enough time to "keep up" has been a challenge for me lately. Too much to do and I need to reprioritize so that I have time to be contemplative and read/listen more.

As for your last question, do you mean what is the impact of blogs on the library?

I think it's two-fold. First, blogs are giving libraries an avenue to reach out to a new type of patron (people who read blogs, use RSS, want to interact w/ the library on their turf). Second, I think it's helping library professionals get in-tune to a different level of interest or engagement with technologies or ideas that they might not otherwise come across - and it gives them the opportunity to come into contact w/ it more quickly than the traditional publishing world. That's not to say that conferencing can't do that for them to - maybe better. But you already know how I feel about that! ;)
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
8:12 PM EDT 4/21/06 as a reply to WebJunction Community.
who is "webjunction" - it's me. (Sorry.)
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
3:00 PM EDT 4/22/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Yes, contemplation is important ... I sometimes think most important.

In my case, I'm lucky that my library backs up to a protected nature area and pond. A 15 minute walk with my binoculars can do wonders!

I also think part of our general problem as we confront technology is that we see it in discrete parts ... our profession seldom has a holistic idea as to where it should be going. Not that all parts are going the same place ....

In that vein, I think blogs perform the useful function of "advertising" thoughts (and things) but are not so good at forging or, as a friend of mine in the KM world puts it, "annealing" them.
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
7:05 PM EDT 5/1/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, I guess that Chateau Pichon-Longueville-Baron, Grand Cru Classe Pauillac (2000) really knocked me out. St. Jerry's wine cellar is superb. Quoting from [url http://www.decanter.com/winefinder/wine_details.php?wid=22805 ]decanter.com[/url]:

"Fabulous Pauillac scents. Chocolate-coated tannins. Superb opulent, flowing style, broad yet complex. Drink 10+ years."

I wonder if we were a bit rushed in our consumption of such a fine product. Live for the moment!

As for libraries and blogs and whether real critical discourse is being waylaid by a navel-gazing blogging elite: I think the current exchange on the whole 'Library 2.0" thing is revealing some of that chasm. There is a lot of pushback against the bandwagon, gotta-have-it broadcast of L2 and more sifting through what’s really new and worth investigating for the betterment of library practice. If anyone hasn’t yet read Walt Crawford’s customarily thorough [url http://cites.boisestate.edu/civ6i2.pdf ]treatise on the subject[/url], I recommend it.
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
2:32 PM EDT 5/2/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I wonder ... has anyone invited Walt to WJ? I've run across him on a blog or two outside his own bailiwik, so perhaps he'd be willing to join us here.
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
9:16 PM EDT 5/5/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
At your suggestion, I did. Unfortunately, the [url http://walt.lishost.org/?p=306 ]timing was not great[/url]. I'm hopeful that I will be welcoming Walt into the OCLC fold.

“I always said that mega-mergers were for megalomaniacs
--David Ogilvy (US advertising executive, b.1911)

Not that OCLC is mega; it's more meta. ;)
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
11:48 AM EDT 5/8/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Bad timing indeed ... outside my particular interests, so I've no opinion.

Thanks for doing that.
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
1:25 PM EDT 5/9/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Blogs can be of the navel-gazing or marketing variety. I've done plenty of those types of blogging myself. But they (even) can solicit discourse through either the comments field (my favorite) or through comments on other blogs. It's getting the conversation going online that really fascinates me - some people won't comment back and that really bugs me! But I still (honestly) see more potential and impact for flat conversation with a message board or conferencing tool. I feel *way* more connected to my friends here on All Aboard than I do to my commenters on various blogs. Maybe that will change over time, but there's something about the format that seems more ... democratic ... or like a party! emoticon

Speaking of parties, I leave in the morning to visit my sister in Estonia. I'll be gone for 10 days. I look forward to rejoining you all when I'm back, and hopefully I'll have some fun pictures to share.

Take care, all.
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
12:25 PM EDT 5/11/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Have fun!

I agree ... a successful, ongoing, conferencing discussion space seems to take on a "community" atmosphere that blogs, as a general rule, lack. That's not to say that blogs do not have community.

It's to say that community is more broadly defined in a discussion space. It's the difference between the narrow "community" of a condo association meeting, focused on the condo's needs, and the "community" of a town.

Now, that said ... bar's open!!!
Re: Today's Problem/Opportunity
1:23 PM EDT 5/11/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm glad to hear the bar is open. Speaking of parties, WebJunction's third birthday is tomorrow, May 12th!! I thought it would be only natural to celebrate the success of our virtual community right here at St. Jerry's --my favorite virtual hangout. I'm planning to bake a virtual cake in my PhotoShop oven just for the occasion.

Be back later. emoticon
Re: Happy Third Birthday, WJ!
12:43 PM EDT 5/12/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
<p>Woo-hoooo! WebJunction is officially 3 years old today!!!</p>

<p>HAPPY BIRTHDAY, WJ!</p>

<p>A nice little quotation from All Aboard:<br />
" I LOVE WebJunction and have found it very helpful." emoticon</p>

<p>Have a piece of cake.<br />

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/17814937@N00/144654901/" title="Photo Sharing"><img src="http://static.flickr.com/48/144654901_e90d357e7c.jpg" width="400" height="260" alt="WJbirthdayCake" /></a></p>

<p>I wonder if we can dig up a bottle of champagne for the occasion. I'll see if I can find our bartender, a man of wisdom and eclectic tastes, ... or maybe I'll just wander down to St. Jerry's cellar.</p>
Happy Third Birthday WJ!
12:20 PM EDT 5/12/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I wanted to add my birthday congratulations to WJ! We've made it through our Terrible Twos, and after three years we are sassier than ever but tinged with just a touch of wordly wisdom. Thank you to everyone in the WJ community who has made this the place to be, library-wise. I look forward to doing more community-building, content-building, and learning together in the years ahead!
Re: Happy Third Birthday WJ!
12:41 PM EDT 5/12/06 as a reply to Joe Anderson.
Well, I just popped open a bottle of the very finest Ice Mountain Natural Spring Water and savored a bowl of Sodexho's delectable chicken tortilla soup in honor of WJ's third anniversary. Now I lift my less than potent potable in a toast to all of you who have made this site a hit. Many thanks, and let's plan something even better (better than chicken tortilla soup?) for next year, when the third anniversary will fall on a Saturday!
Re: Happy Third Birthday WJ!
1:56 PM EDT 5/12/06 as a reply to George Needham.
Woo hoo! 3rd birthday bash indeed.

Thank you for bringing the cake.

Attachments: Champagne%20Mixed.jpg (59.3k)   
Re: Happy Third Birthday WJ!
6:43 PM EDT 5/12/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Wow -- I cannot believe it is really our third birthday. I remember the day of our birth well -- standing in the Library of Congress at our launch reception, holding a glass of bubbly, amazed that we had made it to the day of launch, and filled with the majesty of the building we were all standing in. It was a great feeling.

So here's to the WJ, and to all the people who have made it what it is today. Congrats!
Re: Happy Third Birthday WJ!
10:29 AM EDT 5/15/06 as a reply to Joe Anderson.
I recently discovered WJ., and from I see (& discovering); I think is great. I may eventually check about some of your courses.
Wish you, a successful future!
Re: Happy Third Birthday WJ!
11:44 AM EDT 5/15/06 as a reply to Jeanne Skaggs.
Welcome 'rockinsenior'! We're so glad you dicovered WebJunction --just in time to wish our community a happy birthday. emoticon
Re: Happy Third Birthday WJ!
1:38 PM EDT 5/15/06 as a reply to Jeanne Skaggs.
Indeed ... Welcome to St. Jerry's!
Re: Happy Third Birthday, WJ!
2:21 PM EDT 5/12/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
oh, I'm all choked up! I fondly remember the day I first heard of WJ...

...first semester of grad school, feeling information overload with a capital I.O., complaining that there was so little COLLABORATION in libraryland (or as I fondly call it, the libraryhood), and someone said "you should check out WebJunction...they live to bring about collaboration and resource sharing."

...the rest is history. Here's to many, many more years of collaboration and of WebJunction!!!!
Re: Happy Third Birthday, WJ!
5:00 PM EDT 5/12/06 as a reply to Jennifer Peterson.
Nice memory, Jen!

And thanks LB for the nice selection of champagne. It's quittin' time in Ohio and past noon here on the west coast, so I think we should pop one (or more) of those corks.

"It's what I always wanted—to be in touch with a community of ideas like this.…There's something thrilling about the internet.…It almost doesn't matter what anyone says. It's more the thrill of knowing you're in touch with people laterally, rather than through a filter of some kind."
--Brian Eno, British rock musician, from an interview in 1993
RE: turn of the dog
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm baaaaacccck! Phew - what a long couple of plane rides but the trip was awesome! I have a lot of pix to share. Maybe I should start a Boring Slideshow of My Vacation topic, heheh!

I will be happy to tend bar here until the return of librarybob.

Chrystie, I do not think this topic is meant only for discussing Jerry's exploits. I believe any good quote that inspires a bit of discussion is well worth the cost of a virtual drink.
RE: ally smooth
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
<img src="http://plaidworks.com/~maddog/pix/greygoosemartini.jpg" alt="We serve only the virtual best!" title="We serve only the virtual best!"><img src="http://www.electricminds.org/~maddog/pix/gargoyle.gif" alt="At your service!" title="At your service">

Here ya go, Chrystie...
RE: call
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Anyone else with a need for a drink and/or a discussion? What's your pleasure?

As Jerry once said:

Where thy treasure is, there thy heart is also
RE: RE: scriptorium vs. library
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
We can discuss whatever folks want ... Jerry's not likely to be around anyway, what with his schedule and all.

I think it's "scriptorium" (where books are written, if memory serves) because it scans better than "library" in the title. Truth to tell, this is the fourth incarnation of St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium ... the coffeehouse and bar of choice for discriminating librarians. ;-)
RE: turn of the sunburned bartender
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Hi Bob - welcome back! How was your trip to Florida?
RE: RE: cognizing distinction
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
An espresso then? Maybe a latte -- I recall some years ago how my sister *had* to get me to a drive-in coffee place as soon as I landed at Sea-Tac.

Next thing I knew, the darn things were everywhere. ;-)

Or maybe just a bit of kahlua in whathaveyou.

Nice quote ... why do you think it's so appropos right now? I know you're busy behind the scenes.
RE: RE: RE: cognizing distinction
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
First, maddog had his storm pictures - discussed with Pam in another topic.

Then, you said it is cold in the midwest.

As for Seattle - we had our first snow storm since 1996 - these last two days have been our first Snow Days in years!

Everyone is out to the coffee shops (close to home). It's wonderful!

Perhaps it was all a little too ambiguous. I'm just all over the board these days. emoticon

Besides the weather, WJ is still in the "learning how to sail" phase, that's for sure! But we seem to be getting on ok, considering.

In May it will be one year. Wow!
RE: RE: RE: RE: cognizing distinction
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Can't leave you all drinking alone during all the great winter weather - I'll just have a coffee with Bailey's, please (the best of both worlds, don't you think?)

My favorite quote, posted here in our library: "Libraries will get you throught times of no money better than money will get you through times of no libraries."

And, time flies - May will be here before you know it! Any big anniversary celebration plans?

Beat this: we had a few chilly days well below 0 (high of -22 Monday). Thankfully we are above 0 today (high of 15 - felt great!).

Off to Sundance Film Festival next week - have never been, so am really looking forward to the trip.
RE: RE: turn of the sunburned bartender
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Thanks for minding the bar, 'dog.

Florida, Orlando really, was wonderful. The weather was unusually good for the week we were there -- highs in the upper 70s or low 80s.

As I've told others, my wife is a "Disney addict" and we wind up going there pretty often. We're Disney Vacation Club members and stayed at Old Key West.

There's a longish story packed into that -- let's just say that DVC is, by far, the cheapest way for Disney addicts to get their fix. Not that I don't like Walt Disney World, especially Epcot, myself.

One amusing incident -- on New Year's Eve we were at the very top of the Spaceship Earth ride (inside that giant geodesic globe) when the ride broke down. We had to walk down past all of the animatronic figures, so I've now got a couple photos of my kids posing among the Rennaisance scholars. :-)

Kinda cool, really.

How are things in the northeast? Damned cold here in the midwest lately.

Coffee anyone? Brewed fresh!
RE: cognizing distinction
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
ha! i must admit, i'm not very discriminating when it comes to bars. i like them all!

coffee? now, that is another matter!

here's a quote - it's in the WJ newsletter this month. curiously fits into our conversation today...

I am not afraid of storms, for I am learning how to sail my ship. -LMA
RE: frigeration zone
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Wow, that is cold and tough to beat. We were at 10 below zero this morning but that is about the low point for us so far. Still not a lot of snow on the ground compared to what we had back before the holly daze.

WJ does seem to be getting a bit of wind in its sails lately. It always takes at least a dedicated core group to get the ball rolling and it is nice to see Pam and others who have found value here join in the discussions. Pam, we expect a full report on Sundance upon your return!

Kudos to LibraryBob for making the best of a malfunctioning ride and finding the fun in the long walk down.

Please allow me to buy the next round

I am still determined to be cheerful and happy, in whatever situation I may be; for I have also learned from experience that the greater part of our happiness or misery depends upon our dispositions, and not upon our circumstances. - Martha Washington (1732 - 1802)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: cognizing distinction
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Heh. The "money" quote brings me back to long ago, when the Freak Brother comics were out.

I think Freddy Freak had the original line.

Let me line up some bottles ... now, what's your pleasure? Maddog's buying.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: cognizing distinction
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm sticking to my usual, GGMUPWAT.

I love maddog's quote. Yes! That's how I feel (most of the time; tho I admit that I need to find a way to get my chin back up on some days)!

Anyway, some folks have said that I tend to be "ambiguous" or "idealistic" or even "too ambitious" - but I think they just excuse away my disposition because I'm a youngin'. "Age discrimination" if you ask me. emoticon

I sometimes learn that some things are not possible ... but is there any such thing as "too ambitious" in a public library? I think not! I'd rather believe they are possible and be disappointed, than believe they are not(and be right).

It is ok to hope for things that will never come true. -my friend bradi.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: cognizing distinction
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One grey goose martini.

<setting it down>

Yes, youth allows for many things -- especially the chance to change the occasional failure into "experience."

On the other hand,

Long experience has taught me that to be criticized is not always to be wrong. -- Anthony Eden

I think I'll whip up a latte this early morning just to treat myself for that quote. :-)
RE: mo snare sound
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
better latte than never!
RE: RE: frigeration zone, redux
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm wondering how folks are faring this winter. Chicago hasn't been too bad, with less snow than normal (it's been that way for several years seemingly), but I wonder how others are doing.

I do imagine things are pretty darn cold where maddog lives and family in Olympia have told me about some pretty bad storms out that way.
RE: frigeration zone, redux
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
With temps up into the 20's and 30's it is feeling springlike after last week's deep freeze. We had several mornings at 20 below zero with a windchill that made it 40-50 below. They actually shut down the schools one day for windchill concerns. Snow wise we started out with many feet but it all melted when I brought the sun back with me from the Virgin Islands. Now we scarcely have enough to ski and snowmobile on...
RE: RE: frigeration zone, redux
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Hmmm. Not too bad here -- seasonal temps and little snow. I suspect the farmers would like more snow.

A quote:

Winter is icummen in,

Lhude sing Goddamn,

Raineth drop and staineth slop,

And how the wind doth ramm!

Sing: Godamn.


-- Ezra Pound
RE: RE: RE: turn from Sundance
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
So <wiping the bar> what did you see?
RE: RE: RE: RE: turn from Sundance
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Isabella Rossilini (can't really spell that, but she sure is gorgeous in person!) in The Saddest Music in the World - actually a very amusing melodrama set in Canada during prohibition. She was there to talk a bit before the movie. Love her accent too.

Open Water (which a studio purchased so it will probably come to a theater near you this summer!) based on the true story of 2 scuba divers left behind by their dive boat. Very suspenseful but not as gory as Jaws.

A Touch of Pink, which included a Cary Grant character as an imaginary friend - a hilarious movie (as long as you aren't offended by homosexuality)!

A great documentary called Dirty Work, about 3 jobs you probably don't think about very often: a septic tank cleaner, restorative artist at a funeral home and a bull semen collector. Edward Norton was exec. producer of that, and he was there to introduce it.

You can search the film guide for better info on all these:

[url http://festival.sundance.org/filmguide/alpha.aspx ]http://festival.sundance.org/filmguide/alpha.aspx[/url]

I also saw Evergreen, Second Best, One Point 0 (Matrix-like and probably lowest on my list) and Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter and...Spring (Korean with very little dialogue but wonderful).

Hearing the directors talk about making their movies was really interesting - some have been working on these for years, learning as they go, hoping for some funding along the way. It was amazing to see their results.

Enjoy!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: turn from Sundance
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
A film is a petrified fountain of thought. -Jean Cocteau, Esquire, 1961.
RE: RE: turn from Sundance
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Hope everyone in the east hasn't frozen - family in NJ spent a night camped out in their family room with the woodstove, it was soooo cold. I could sympathize - we spent Saturday evening standing 3 hours in line at Sundance in 5 degree temps trying for tickets (which we didn't get!). Good Samaritans went to Starbucks but even the cocoa had cooled by the time they got back! Otherwise Sundance was fabulous - everyone should have the experience. Didn't see a movie we didn't like, although some were a little bizarre! Nine movies in 4 days is about my limit, I think.

Keep the Bailey's coming....
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: turn from Sundance
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Very nice, Pam! I'm jealous.

(wiping countertop, musing)

I heard there was a film that examined a decade of efforts to bring down Bill Clinton. Did you get to see that?

(looking about)

Nice quote, Chrystie!

Another martini coming up!
RE: RE: RE:turn from Sundance
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Didn't get to see the Bill Clinton film, but read today in the NY Times that Garden State and Napoleon Dynamite both were picked up by studios. We thought they might be so didn't make a great effort to get in (I can only spend so many hours freezing in the ticket line!). So heopfully we'll get to see them after all. The festival opener, a surfing documentary (Riding Giants) also was picked up, but I wonder how widely that will be distributed?

Next time plan to head to the festival too! Then you won't have to be jealous and can be the envy of all your friends. Get a group and share a condo - that ends up being fairly affordable.

See you there next year!
RE: RE: RE: views
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'll start with a latte - Friday afternoon is dragging along...

but we are having snow and should be back in the deep freeze (zero and below) for Sunday, so let's move on to a shot of Bailey's in my second cup.

Sorry I'm a bit sleepy and can't come up with a quote to add!
RE: views
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Sounds like a great tim Pam. Thank you for sharing your experiences with us. My son and I are avid movie watchers and it is always nice to hear of any gems we may otherwise miss, especially if they fall below Hollyweird's radar!

Let me buy you a drink. Here's my quote:

A film is - or should be - more like music than like fiction. It should be a progression of moods and feelings. The theme, what's behind the emotion, the meaning, all that comes later.

- Stanley Kubrick
RE: RE: RE: RE: views
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
That's OK ... 'dog's got you covered.
RE: RE: RE: RE: views
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
That's OK ... 'dog's got you covered.
RE: RE: views
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
So what'll it be, Pam?

(setting up glassware)

Amen to the Kubrick quote. Books and movies are such different media.
RE: doubled our efforts
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
wooHOO! Bob is serving doubles! A double latte with a double shot of Bailey's should be enough to jumpstart you and top off your antifreeze at the same time, huh Pam?
RE: RE: doubled our efforts
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Doubles! That really does get things going. And it looks like we won't be in the deepfreeze as was predicted so I should be OK.

Amusing Quote:

Re my post in Shameless Promotion: Chuck, referring to leaving his 2-year old home instead of taking him to the White House - "He would definitely be a weapon of mass destruction." (and I'd like to know how you do italics here!)
RE: RE: RE: doubled our efforts
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Oh, good quote!

This space recognizes html, so italics are accomplished by preceeding what you want to be italicized with the letter i in angle brackets. This is then followed by /i also in angle brackets.
RE: RE: RE: RE: doubled our efforts
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
(I had to check ...)

You can see this if you click on "source" in your browser -- though there's so much else going on with these pages that it'll take a while to find individual posts.
RE: inventing the post
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Yes, it can be tough to describe even the simplest HTML tags in a post because as soon as you type it, HTML happens. Attaching a text file to a post is the way I get around it at Electric Minds. Since we do not have a file attachment feature at WebJunction I will link you to a text file instead. If you would like to see how I made this line in italics [url http://www.goodwinlibrary.com/bin/italicstag.txt ]Click Here[/url]
RE: RE: inventing the post
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
i love the way my drinking buddies make use of our faulty system. nice work, all.

i have a cold now, with all this traveling i've been doing. i'm switching to a hot toddy for a bit.
RE: RE: RE: eally weird theft
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I do suppose whoever took it had a headache?
RE: RE: RE: eally weird theft
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I do suppose whoever took it had a headache?
RE: RE: RE: inventing the post
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, since 'dog covered Pam and I hiccupped, I guess you can get a pass on the quote, Chrystie.

:-)

Here's ya go, one hot toddy!
RE: RE: RE: RE: inventing the post
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Get well, Chrystie.



I can do some basic HTML, so thanks for the info on italics.
RE: RE: eally weird theft
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
In the "Weird Stuff We Can't Believe" file, it was discovered Tuesday that our spine label printer was missing. We're treating it as a theft, but can't imagine why that and not all the fun stuff, like digital camera, laptop and projector (which are also out in plain sight) was taken. Whoever took it was careful enough to unscrew the connection but didn't take the rest of the necessary parts! But they did take a box (after removing the computer paper that it held) and a very large bottle of Ibuprofen. So if anyone else has had fun experiences like this, I'd love to hear about them!

Maybe those doubles are getting to me...
RE: RE: RE: RE: eally weird theft
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I really would like to know why I'm getting double posts ...
RE: peater
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
too many lattes?
RE: RE: peater
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I wish!
RE: fills
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, perhaps its about time I bought you a drink. Pour yourself a double - here are two quotes:

"By working faithfully eight hours a day, you may get to be a boss and work twelve hours a day." - Robert Frost

"The difference between a boss and a leader: a boss says, 'Go!' - a leader says, 'Let's go!'" - E. M. Kelly, Growing Disciples, 1995
RE: RE: fills
3:02 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Thanks, 'dog. I could use it ... today's real-life riddle is "how did the lifesaver candy get in the office printer over the weekend?" Could be a kid, could be a mouse.
RE: RE: RE: fills
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm confused. Was it your mouse or your printer feeding on lifesavers? (Ha!) emoticon
RE: RE: RE: RE: fills
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Maybe both ... could be that they're partners in some nefarious scheme.

(polishing bar)

Given the nature of the Scriptorium -- and the fact that I think it's time for me to buy a round (it being Jerry's liquor and all that) -- here's a literary quote:

Poe ... was perhaps the first great nonstop literary drinker of the American nineteenth century. He made the indulgences of Coleridge and De Quincey seem like a bit of mischieve in the kitchen with the cooking sherry.</i)

-- James Thurber

Of course, this isn't to forget that here at St. Jerry's we serve a mean cuppa coffee.
RE: Churchill and brandy
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
The authors we read when young tend to call us back again and again. When I was a teen I set out to read books by Winston Churchill. It was his command of the English language that really excited me. Now here at St. Jerry's there is quite a bit of imbibing going on and I find that Churchill couldn't resist a tonic or two. I'm sure he would have enjoyed your special place.
RE: RE: Churchill and brandy
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Or perhaps two ...

Reminds me of my favorite Churchill story:

He was at a dinner of some sort and had drunk a bit too much. The lady across the table shot him a hard look and told him that he was drunk.

He looked up and told her that, yes, he was a bit drunk and that she was ugly. The difference was that he'd be sober in the morning.

(polishing table)

Glad you made it here, Paul!
RE: Churchill and brandy
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
That is one of my two favorite Churchill quotes, the other one being:

He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire.
RE: RE: RE: Churchill and brandy
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Ok, I think I'm starting to get it

(stepping up to the bar)

1. If you put up a quote, you get your drink (or two).

2. You can either tend, or buy - or is librarybob alwasy the tender? (ha! another pun!)

Have I got it?

Never practice two vices at once. - Tallulah Bankhead
RE: paration
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I do believe she's got it, but if Chrystie drinks like Tallulah Bankhead I had best make a run to the package store right now!

I'll just chug this brandy before I go and leave this tidbit in the tip jar for librarybob:

If I had to live my life again, I'd make the same mistakes, only sooner. - Tallulah Bankhead
RE: RE: Churchill and brandy
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
And perhaps a brandy for you, Mr. 'dog?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Churchill and brandy
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One coffee coming up!

Cream, sugar?

Espresso, latte, cappuccino, flavored, short, tall, grande? ;-)
RE: charge me
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'll have a regular house brand with cream and sugar. I am too much of a redneck to go for the fancy stuff. I read this quote by Balzac and I have to wonder what else this guy was putting in his coffee. I am happy if mine just keeps me awake...

This coffee plunges into the stomach...the mind is aroused, and ideas pour forth like the battalions of the Grand Army on the field of battle.... Memories charge at full gallop...the light cavalry of comparisons deploys itself magnificently; the artillery of logic hurry in with their train of ammunition; flashes of wit pop up like sharp-shooters. -

Honore de Balzac (1799 - 1850)
RE: RE: charge me
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Wow - I stay away for a few days and discover lots of new chatter when I return!

I guess they're not making coffee like they used to, since I came across this Alexander Pope quote: Coffee, (which makes the politician wise,

And see thro? all things with his half-shut eyes).


But I will stick with my coffee and Bailey's, since it's supposed to get to -14 tonight.

Happy Valentine's Day to all!

Pam
RE: RE: RE: charge me
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One coffee for Maddog, one coffee and Bailey's for Pam!

FWIW, I'm mostly with 'dog on this one ... coffee, cream and sugar's the way to go. Unless, of course, there's plenty of time and a sunrise to watch!

Oh, yes ... one coffee for Chrystie!
RE: RE: RE: RE: Churchill and brandy
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
You've most definitely got it. Please do feel free to tend to the bar if you're about.

(cleaning glasses)

The thing is, if the software allows an e-mail reply to *just* this topic, then one person (in theory mind you) could tend bar. But the reality is that this is a bartender relay. :-)

Now, what is it you're drinking? Mind you, there's always coffee and tea when the sun hasn't made it over the yardarm.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Churchill and brandy
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
The sun is out here, it's lovely, actually, but I think I'll switch to coffee anyway. Tis a bit early yet. Not that I'd like to dissuade Harry from the "package" store, as he calls it; I'll be drinking later!

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. -Henny Youngman
RE: RE: RE: RE: charge me
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Remember, I am from Seattle, so my neck is blue - and I certainly don't do anything before I have my "coffee" which is really a double tall soy latte with light foam, extra hot, to go.

Thanks librarybob, my favorite Barista!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: charge me
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Greetings from OFFLINE in Glasgow, MT! We've had a great time discussing tech issues and libraries - I've been talking up WJ, and hope you might see a few new names. People have mentioned making things a little easier to get to, although we did a search for an article and that worked great.

We tend to eat a lot of chocolate at this gathering, so here is my quote:

Libraries - chocolate for the mind

It is early, though so a vanilla latte will be enough for now!

Pam
RE: charge me
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Just what IS it about chocolate and librarians? I love it, but maintain a distance most of the time...but, the others actively buy it and expose me to it daily! It is tough for one of dubious willpower to stay away from it. They justify the consumption by saying that dark chocolate is good for you!

And, what exactly is a "chocolate day"? Is it a fundraiser? I know of one in Portland, Me.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: charge me
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Done!

We had a "chocolate day" at my library last Thursday -- the staff table groaned under the weight.

I do think there's a thing about chocolate and librarians!
RE: RE: RE: incarnations
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
So ... what'll you have? :-)

Coffee or?

(polishing bar)

Actually, our chocolate day wasn't much -- just an excuse for everyone to bring in chocolates.
RE: RE: RE: RE: incarnations
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
You may be hiccupping, but I will be asking for Frangelico on the rocks. Nothing like the monk for sipping, while reading a good book, preferably near a woodstove or fireplace. It was -3 here this a.m.
RE: RE: incarnations
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
This post has been moved by an administrator. Originally posted by Esmeralda on 2/15/2004.

In my literary travels I have noted that many famous/infamous writers feel that if we are born once and die once, how hard is it to believe we go through it more than once? While not all writers can claim they are intelligent, many are. Ben Franklin piqued my interest in the subject with a now-lost quote about playing another game of cards instead of focussing on work, but in its absence I offer this, his proposed epitaph.

The body of Benjamin Franklin, printer,(like the cover of an old book,its contents worn out,and stript of its lettering and gilding)lies here, food for worms! Yet the work itself shall not be lost, for it will, as he believed, appear once more in a new and more beauti-ful edition,corrected and amended by its Author! -

Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: incarnations
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One Frangelico, coming up.

Sorry about those hiccups. Most puzzling!

It's supposed to start warming up here in Chicagoland, breaking 30 today and into the 40s on Wednesday and Thursday! I hope.

Right now, I'm wondering how the library's detention ponds are going to deal with the snow run-off, especially if it rains. I expect the pond out back will rise a bit,
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: incarnations
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
so sorry about the hiccups (now deleted).

*sometimes* the cause can be using the refresh button in your browser after you're automatically returned to the topics list.

*other times* it happens with absolutely no explanation that we can find.

So, I find myself a bit of a housekeeper on this issue (until we get newer, fancier boards...)

Housework, if it is done right, can kill you. ~John Skow
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: incarnations
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Thanks, Chrystie. My throat's better now.

:-)

Good quote!

So ... what'll you have?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: incarnations
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Hi, All.

Barkeep, I'll take a Rusty Nail. Celebrating a nice, sunny, relatively warm day here in Idaho. I think we got up to nearly 50 today. Oh, yes, and commemorating the completion of one more MLIS class assignment.
RE: garding drinks
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Glad to meet you Lance!

Since this is your first time here, first drink's on the house ... one rusty nail. Personally, anything with Scotch in can't be a bad thing.

(fiddling with the ice)

Here you go.

Next time, though, please remember to bring a quote. Jerry's rule is -- drinks for quotes. :-)
RE: RE: garding drinks
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
"...at some point something must have come from nothing..." Jostein Gaarder Sophie's World

Thanks, Jerry! Does that cover it?

Lance
RE: RE: RE: garding drinks
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Covered very well indeed!

By the way, I'm Bob. Jerry's the owner ... a long story covered in the first post.

How's your corner of the library universe?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: garding Lance
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Now there's a good question ... I guess I'd have to say that he's virtually not here.

How are things with you? Any news on WebJunction plans?

Or perhaps a simple white wine?
RE: RE: RE: RE: garding Lance
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Where'd he go?
RE: RE: more chocolate and libraries
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Hello, good people!

(enters blinking as eyes adjust to the dim light)

What brings me in here, you ask? Well, I'm celebrating. I just put the finishing touches on the Connoisseur's Thesaurus of Chocolate. It was a project for my MLIS thesaurus construction class. And quite a bit of mental aerobics, at that. I learned a fair bit about chocolate in the process.

Here's a hint of an early connection between chocolate and libraries:

Chocolate is a perfect food, as wholesome as it is delicious, a beneficent restorer of exhausted power. It is the best friend of those engaged in literary pursuits.

--Baron Justus von Liebig (1803-1873) German chemist

Eat chocolate and live well!

(I said that.)
RE: RE: RE: more chocolate and libraries
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, Betha -- that's certainly worth a drink!

What'll you have?
RE: RE: RE: RE: more chocolate and libraries
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I've heard of a beer aged on a bed of fine dark chocolate, but I can't remember the brewer. I'll settle for a pint of Fuller's ESB, thanks.

Alas, I must return to my ivory computer and my digital texts, for it is the next-to-last week of the quarter, but I'll leave you with this lovely fragment from Anne Sexton's poem 'Live':

I?m an empress.

I wear an apron.

My typewriter writes.

It didn't break the way it warned.

Even crazy, I?m as nice

as a chocolate bar.
RE: RE: freshment
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Here's the latest on WJ plans:

We launch a new program at ALA in June. Five states are partnering with us to offer a "customized" version of WJ to the librarians in their state. The good news is that the "global" WJ will stay here for everyone. The learning center and message boards will be shared between all sites, content will also be shared between all sites, but states will have their own editorial control over the content for their state - we're assuming they will want to post locally relevant content as well.

Etc. Etc.

It's a very exciting development along the "distributed community" theme.

I'm looking forward, but am also a little (honestly) tired.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. -JN

Hence, I'm going on vacation (Mexico!) next week. Can't wait!

Betha, so good to see you.

And I'll have a beer too.
RE: freshment
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One Fuller's coming up!

What's happening this next quarter? Any great classes you're looking forward to?
RE: RE: RE: freshment
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Another Fuller's, coming up!

(wiping counter)

Aah, Chrystie -- have fun! Do you mind my asking where you're going?
RE: RE: RE: RE: freshment
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Not at all! I'm going to Mexico. Leaving today, in fact!!

See you all when I get back...
RE: creation in the sun
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
It is still pretty close to the spring break season down there. Will Chrystie turn up on the next Community Coordinators Gone Wild video?

I have been *gasp* working a regular day job and haven't had much time to check in here. I was hoping Bob could give me an extra large regular coffee to jumpstart my brain on a Sunday afternoon. Here's my payment:

If at first you don't succeed, well, so much for skydiving. - Victor O'Reilly, Games of the Hangman
RE: RE: creation in the sun
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Extra large, coming up!

Cream, sugar?

Best of luck, Chrystie!
RE: RE: RE: creation in the sun
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Spring weather is like a child's face, changing three times a day --- Chinese proverb

Since we are warm today but woke up to some snow this morning, that quote seems appropriate.

Hope Chrystie has great fun in Mexico - I am looking at a similar getaway next month as an anniversary trip (but much later, so all the spring break/Easter crowd is gone and forgotten!).

Certainly don't want to end up on Librarians Gone Wild, either.

Oh - since it's pretty warm in our building, I'll have a nice iced coffee, maybe a dash of vanilla in there. Thanks!
RE: RE: RE: RE: creation in the sun
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
An excellent quote!

Here's that vanilla coffee ...

(wiping counter)

We woke to a dusting of snow here as well, but it looks as though the weather will be much the same for the next three days -- cloudy and cold. I do wish it would change three times a day!
RE: surfacing
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
yup, extra large with cream and sugar was just what the doctor ordered. We got about 8 inches of snow last night so it looks like we will get one more bonus day on the snow machines. We'll have to keep to the fields though as the woods are still a bit rough. There is enough snow to hide the rocks and stuff but not enough to cushion them. I'll just have a small coffee this morning, barkeep.

What has been hidden by snow is revealed by a thaw - Swedish proverb, translated by Verne Moberg

or in my case, what has been hidden by snow could be revealed by an errant ski at 50 mph
RE: RE: surfacing
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Careful, there, 'dog. We don't want to lose you.

Nice quote! One coffee!
RE: surfacing
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Thanks Bob *sip, slurp - ahhhhhh...

This has been a tremendous bonus for us. Last week at this time the ground was completely bare and we were well into the mud season. Now we have several inches of snow even in the deepest woods, nearly a foot in the fields and as I type it is snowing like crazy! I have a pair of vintage 1974 Skidoo Elan 250 twins so they don't go much more than 50mph. I often tip them on their sides or just plain fly off but since I wear a helmet it is mostly just a risk of the random bruise. My neighbor, on the other hand, is a bit more over the edge. He has a brand new high performance sled that does well over 100mph. It is great to park the old and new side by side and see the difference 30 years makes, heheh. You can see a picture of my friend in motion if you [url http://www.metrocast.net/~juljef/pix/mysled04.jpg ]Click Here[/url]

I will pass on any java this morning as I don't want to miss a moment of fun on the snow. I will leave this quote in the pickle jar in order to buy a drink for the next person through here...

Seize the day {Carpe diem}: trust not to the morrow - Horace [Quintus Horatius Flaccus] (65?8 B.C.), Roman poet.
RE: RE: turn to winter
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'll take advantage of maddog's generous tip while he's out playing in the snow - nice photo of the flying sled, though! Family left here this week (where we've had 50's and sunshine) to NJ and more winter so they aren't very pleased. But the mild weather here has inspired us to get the motorhome ready for some short trips.

Anyone else do any camping?

Let's go with a vanilla latte today, since I am working (thanks, md!)
RE: RE: RE: turn to winter
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One vanilla latte, coming up!

We're warming up here in Chicagoland -- it's been cold the last two days, but it's projected to hit 70 or so by Friday. My wife *hates* winter; I endure it.
RE: RE: turn to work
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm Baaaaaaaack! Chuckie.

Post-vacation, I've had strep (or some other bacteria, perhaps picked up while in Mexico?) for the last 3 days.

For my quote, I'll take a lukewarm salt water gargle. Besides, I think I've now had enough tequilla to last until next spring.

How the heck is everybody??
RE: RE: RE: RE: quiem for a tequila worm
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Chrystie! Great to have you back. Where in Mexico (if you can divulge such info) - suddenly my spouse thinks that's a great retirement destination.

He had a nanny as a boy who constantly told him If it doesn't kill you it will fatten you

And, we've finalized the copy for the Library of the Month column - looking forward to seeing it in place!

Beautiful sunny day - let's have an iced coffee with a shot of vanilla. Tried to go camping Saturday night but the weather turned nasty. Of course now it's great...But tomorrow is my day off so I feel a bike ride coming on.
RE: quiem for a tequila worm
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Yes, but the tequila is such a great germ killer! Great to see you back, despite your sore throat.

Does anyone know who originally said

"What doesn't kill us makes us stronger."

????????
RE: RE: quiem for a tequila worm
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One lukewarm saltwater, coming up.

Your quote's supposedly from Nietzsche, 'dog. In _Beyond Good and Evil_. Or so a quick search found ...
RE: RE: RE: quiem for a tequila worm
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
How was vacation, Chrystie (aside the bug you picked up)?
RE: RE:st
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
We visited Northern Baja, and only ventured as far south as Ensenada. The sun did not shine even once emoticon on the coast where we were staying, but we were able to make the most of it with day trips inland, where it was warmer. All in all, the weather was a bit of a bummer, but we still had a good time!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: quiem for a tequila worm
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Here you go, Pam!

Oh, good report, Chrystie! Glad to see you back.

Anyone else have vacation plans!
RE: RE: vised vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Library of the Month article looks great!

After we survive our state association conference, I am taking off to Florida for 10 days. Hubby wants to scope out possible retirement/snowbird options. I'm not ready to retire, but won't turn down a vacation! Even to Florida in May...

Instant messenger, like an unwanted neighbor knocking on my screen (Computer haiku from the May 2004 Smart Computing)

Iced coffee with a shot of Bailey's please - I promise not to drink it until I'm off work!
RE: RE: RE: RE: vised vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Speaking of, whose idea was it to go to [url http://www.ala.org/ala/eventsandconferencesb/annual/an2004/home.htm ]Orlando in June[/url]? emoticon

O wind, rend open the heat, cut apart the heat, rend it to tatters. Fruit cannot drop through this thick air. -Hilda Doolittle

I'm better now, so I'll go back to my gg martini.
RE: RE: RE: vised vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Iced coffee, coming up!

Please do excuse the absence -- family business called me elsewhere. :-(

Isn't Florida in May awful? Of course, compared to their July it's not. My wife wants to move there, though.

Question: How do you tell a native Floridian?

Answer: They're the ones without a tan.

(Told to me by a Florida librarian, without a tan. I guess only mad dogs and Yankees go out in the mid-day sun.)
RE: RE: vised vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, Florida in May wasn't my first choice, either, but between spring break, Easter, state library conference and a medical appointment, thses 9 days in May were the only time we could come up with! We're also going to look at NM - I am not a big fan of humidity.

Get a life - get a library card (National Library Week slogan!)

Let's have a grasshopper today - I've sent in my taxes!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: vised vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Good question. The summer crowd is there for Disney, so the hotel rates aren't any lower.

Spring and fall are best from a $$$ POV.

One Grey Goose martini, coming up!
RE: RE: RE: vised vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One grasshopper coming up!

Yeah ... I had taxes to pay this year, too.

We're considering either (yet another!) re-fi or a home equity loan to do some stuff around the home and at least have something to write-off next year's taxes. :-(

Silly, yes.
RE: RE: RE: RE: vised vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
"Tis better to keep ones mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it remove all doubt" Anon.

I wonder why?

Love this site. Great ingenuity, me thinks!

Don't get many, but I'll have a Virgin Mary, thank you.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: vised vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Glad to see you around, Bob.

One Virgin Mary coming up! Maybe a dash of Tabasco?

(wiping bar)

You know, there's also that coffee machine. I admit that I've got to be a bit more consistent in tamping down the espresso grounds, but I try.

That's a great quote, by the way. I admit also to having my mouth open too often, but that's the penalty you pay for living online. :-)
RE: RE:: REeally really need a vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
LibraryBob, I'll take a Bloody Mary and supersize it while you're at it! Along with the upcoming library conference (we stuffed 400 bags Sunday night!)we rolled over to a new phone system Tuesday (fairly smoothly, I admit, but lots of staff have questions about specific issues they'd like resolved). And the City IT person kindly converted my email to Outlook, although he didn't realize I have 2 accounts on my computer so now I have addresses from my personal library email and folders from the library's email, and reply to doesn't work at all! I'm afraid my vacation won't get here quickly enough...

(I'm sorry, in my present state I just don't feel like offering a quote - please forgive me this one time...)
RE: RE: RE:: REeally really need a vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
When you need a vacation *that* bad ... here's your supersized Bloody Mary.

Want fries with that?

:-)
RE: RE: RE: RE:: REeally really need a vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Thanks, l.b., I am feeling much better now. Conference is almost over, the weather is great, and everyone is adjusting to the phones. Plus we have great weather for a few days.

Never let a fool kiss you or a kiss fool you(the title of a great book full of this type of sentence!)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE:: REeally really need a vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
How's the conference going?

(musing -- wiping bar)

Tht reminds me that I blew off a library system administrator's meeting this morning. I plumb forgot it!

Which, I suppose, is also an indication of how much I think I'd have gotten out of it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE:: REeally really need a vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Perhaps you need a vacation too?

The conference was great, although we were worried everyone else would get tired of hearing, "Bozeman this" and "Bozeman that" because we won several awards, were used as examples in a marketing session, and of course, presented the most fun session of all on book cart drill teams (see the Library of the Month article for a bit more on that).

Having a conference in town is hard, because you still have a life and job, and then add all these other activities. It was a real luxury this morning not to have to be anywhere until 8 a.m.!

So behave yourselves until I get back - I tell my cats that every day when I leave but I'm not sure they listen!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE:: REeally really need a vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Ha!

Well, in my case, I'd had a set of Board committee meetings the evening before. That tends to focus my mind a bit too much -- I end up forgetting things unless they're *very* important.

Let's see here ...

There's a pot of plain ol' coffee on, Blue Mountain beans. Any takers?
RE: RE: RE: RE: turn from vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Thanks - I'd like a virtual Krispy Kreme donut (since I don't really need to eat anything after a week of loafing and over-indulging!). Hope you have some there - that might help the K.K. folks out, since I'm hearing the low-carb fad is really having an adverse effect on the donut industry.
RE: RE: turn from vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Florida was wonderful! And today is windy and a cool 40-something here in Bozeman so I'm beginning to think Florida has great promise...

If the coffee is still hot, I'll take a cup.
RE: RE: RE: turn from vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
My wife once said "I think Florida has great promise," so that passes for a quote. :-)

Want anything with that coffee?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: turn from vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Oops ... I walked away from the bar for a while!

One KK coming up.

I heard that they're trying a new "lower carb" one, but I haven't seen it yet locally.

My kids love the place, and since the ones around here give away free donuts with "A's" on report cards they have a great way to get there.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: turn from vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
You are allowed a break once in awhile... We could add a little bell to get your attention, I suppose.

Low carb donuts? That is going too far - if I'm going to have a donut I want the real thing.

From my collection of computer Haiku (making the email rounds again, I see):

A crash reduces your expensive computer to a simple stone
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: turn from vacation
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Ha! That's when e-mail notification is useful. ;-)

(polishing bar)

Nice quote. Anything I can get you?
RE: RE:ally appreciate the beverages!
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Better make it some kind of skinny latte - my son's 21st birthday was today and we had cheesecake for his requested birthday dessert (made from scratch, and excellent, if I do say so myself!). Go ahead and add some vanilla in there too - I'm having a hard time adjusting to the baby becoming an adult, and that might help a bit.
RE: RE: RE:ally appreciate the beverages!
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One skinny, coming up!

Hmmm ... somhow, that reminds me that maddog is supposed to show up here.

No need to comment on his dress, I suppose.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE:ally appreciate the beverages!
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, then, let me get the chocolate chip cookies so we can pig out by ourselves. ;-)

Meantime, here's to WebJunction!
RE: RE: RE: RE:ally appreciate the beverages!
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Yes, maddog has been noticeably absent lately! Glad I could be around to keep you company - you'd be a bit lonely otherwise. Guess everyone is celebrating the WJ 1-year anniversary elsewhere!
RE: ading but not posting
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, I've been around but I didn't want to hog in on the bartender's duties and the other threads have been pretty quiet lately. I did sort of cramp my online style a bit by finally finding a halfway decent job, heheh.

Since I am here now I will join you in a latte (if you think we will all fit?)

Here's my payment:

Absence of occupation is not rest, A mind quite vacant is a mind distress?d.

William Cowper (1731?1800)


Oh, by the way [url http://www.electricminds.org/~maddog/pix/dogbride.jpg ]What's wrong with my dress???[/url]
RE: RE: ading but not posting
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Quite nice too, if not quite so lumberjackish as rumored. ;-)

One latte, coming up!

I never did ask about your new job. What's up?
RE: RE: RE: ading but not posting
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
OOOH -maddog, I have to know where you got that dress so we can all have one! But you really must add a tiara or something to complete the outfit. Pearls, maybe?

Congrats on the new job - we'd love to hear all about it.

Thanks for the cookies, l.b. Is there room in that latte (if not, I'll take my own, thanks).

In honor of my property tax payment due yesterday: Three things are certain: death, taxes, and lost data. Guess which has occurred (another computer haiku from Japan)
RE: RE: RE: RE: ading but not posting
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Lovely haiku.

It reminds me how we're trying -- gently -- to wean folks off of floppies and on to flash drives. We 've had a couple of folks *running businesses* off of floppy contact lists, then blaming us when the medium starts flaking or they've somehow corrupted their files.

One more latte, coming up!

(looking about)

Let's see, we've got some powdered cinnamon. Want some on that latte?
RE: confection
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I always pictured myself in a cinnamon role...

My new job is a customer service/tech support job for a satellite television and radio company. The pay is not great but it should help to make ends meet in a way they have not been meeting of late.

My boat and pickup truck are both still for sale but not much action there. They are high priced items and everyone else seems to be broke around here too. My secret hope is that I will start making enough overall to get the savings account back into an upward trajectory and then I can just keep my high priced toys.

I guess the best thing about the new job is that the hours are nights and weekends so there is no need for daycare/summer camp expen$e once school lets out in a couple of weeks. The past few months I have been doing office temp stuff during the day while the kids are in school but the money there was surely not enough to offset daycare costs during the summer.

All in all I have high hopes for the new job. It is enjoyable work, the coworkers are all very pleasant and the hours are purrrfect.

Tomorrow my wife and I are taking the big kids to a live performance of prairie home companion. You can listen for my howls from the audience on NPR Saturday night from 6-8PM

Let me buy you all a round in honor of my new job.

A budget takes the fun out of money.

- Mason Cooley
RE: RE: confection
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, if you're buying ... who's up for a round?

Congrats on the job. I was raised blue-collar and respect that type of thing.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: confection
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
The next time I get an error message I'll try to send along all the info - it may be just one particular computer, not WJ.

Yes, the Cat in Boots was a hoot - I found his secret weapon "adorable face" on screensavers.com - makes a great wallpaper on my desktop! There were so many fun references to other things (movies, current events) in that film, I'll have to see it again to catch them all. And that, to me, is what makes a great movie - being able to watch it over and over and see something new every time!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: confection
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One thing I liked ... what kids catch and what their parents catch are two entirely different things. "Far, Far Away" as Beverly Hills was great -- there were lessons everywhere for my 14 year old.
RE: RE: RE: confection
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'll take a latte, if the offer is still there, and some cinnamon on it too.

Congrats on the new job, md, sounds like fun. Hope you can keep those toys!

Love the new look here at WJ (although I'm running in to a few glitches - sometimes I get thrown out and need to log in again to post a message, and have had "syntax error" windows pop up).

Saw Shrek2 Saturday night - maybe we need a movie discussion forum so we can talk about books/movies? Or will St. Jerry's work? Or maybe we're supposed to be so literary we don't go to movies! (Heaven forbid!)

Have a good week all.
RE: RE: RE: RE: confection
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
One latte, coming up!

Sure, St. Jerry's is for discussing anything under the sun.

Wasn't Antonio Banderas a hoot as the Cat in Boots? Of course, we really *did* need only one annoying talking animal ... ;)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: confection
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Pam, glad to hear you like the new look! It's phase one of our face-lift! emoticon

In just a few weeks, we'll have phase one of our new message boards to match. (Fingers crossed).

I am concerned about those glitches you mentioned, however. Can you do me a favor and send a message to [url mailto:info@webjunction.org ]info@webjunction.org[/url] with exactly what happened so that we can look into it?

Same would be true for anyone else who runs into anything funny in the meantime. Many thanks!
RE: RE: nothin' in particular
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
(just polishing the bar)

I think I'll mosey over to one of the bookcases and see what's there ...

Hmmm. Anyone like Chaucer? Jerry's got a signed manuscript.
RE: ale
3:03 PM EDT 6/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'll have a quart of ale please...

And brought of mighty ale a large quart.

Geoffrey Chaucer - Canterbury Tales - The Milleres Tale - Line 3497
Re: RE: ale
4:14 PM EDT 6/22/04 as a reply to < maddog >.
Good on you, 'dog. Newcastle Brown do?

I was at the local Highland Games last week, so it was on tap there. Good stuff.
RE: ale
10:43 PM EDT 6/22/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
That wroks for me!

Here's to the new digs!


<i>glug glug glug glug...
Re: RE: ale
12:13 PM EDT 7/14/04 as a reply to < maddog >.
More ale on tap!

(dusting off the bar and -- of course -- a few book cases)

Trying to get used to the new digs.

Anyone have a quote to offer for a virtual drink?
pale ale 4 me please
9:31 AM EDT 7/16/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'll have a pale dry ginger ale!

<i>O Luxury! thou curst by Heaven’s decree!</i>
- Oliver Goldsmith, <i>The Deserted Village</i> Line 385
Re: pale ale 4 me please
12:22 PM EDT 7/16/04 as a reply to < maddog >.
Pale ale coming up!

I thought I might buy one for the house -- here's a Buckminster Fuller quote:

<i>Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong reasons.</i>

So ... what will folks have?
Re: pale ale 4 me please
6:46 PM EDT 7/21/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Thanks, Bob!
Something cool - maybe Bailey's over ice, and I promise not to drink it until I'm off work! It's been too hot here the past week to come up with clever quotes so I appreciate the round for the house! And I'll try to visit a bit more often - I'll bet it's cool enough inside, maybe some ceiling fans are spinning?

Hope everyone's summer is going nicely, although we feel like it goes much too quickly. We have our big Sweet Pea Festival in 2 weeks, so the Library's Book Cart Drill Team is getting ready! County Fair is this week, rodeos all around the area this month. Still no chance to go camping - work is interfering! And, we are preparing for a migration from Dynix to Sirsi. Should I take a vacation before that, to rest up and get ready, or just hang on and take a big rest after we're done?

I recommend the movie "Supersize Me" if you ever have a chance to see it. Another of the films we tried to see at Sundance - we stood in the "wait list" line for 2 hours (freezing!) hoping a few extra tickets would be available. No luck, but we did visit with Morgan Spurlock, the guy who made the movie. It's a documentary on America's eating habits, and very well done. It came to our town last week so I finally got to go.

Stay cool....
Re: pale ale 4 me please
12:12 PM EDT 7/22/04 as a reply to Pam Henley.
Here you go, Pam.

Jerry's is, of course, on an undisclosed street in an undisclosed city -- we can't let the riff-raff find out about this place, eh? So admitting to the weather would be too much of a hint!

(There *are* ceiling fans, come to think of it. Probably installed in the 30s, from the look of 'em.)

On the other hand, I can tell you that it's gonna hit 90 in Chicagoland today, with high humidity, but that's only the second time this year that it'll hit 90. It's been unusually cool and comfortable. This Saturday, the high is supposed to be only 70!

I've been looking for an excuse to turn on the new gas fireplace ...

[wiping bar]

Anyone have an opinion on the new National Endowment for the Arts survey on reading? It appears that "literature" is read less that it used to be.

But I'm not at all sure what to make of that observation when I've got both books and DVDs flying off my shelves.
Christie's recent trolling :-)
1:45 PM EDT 8/4/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I hadn't been a member of the publib list for a couple of years -- there were a couple very boring thrashes that caused me to lose interest -- but since I'd recently scored a gmail account (librarybob@gmail.com), I decided to rejoin.

Gmail is full text searchable, which makes it handy for list server subscriptions.

Anyway ... just now saw Chrystie trying to encourage folks to visit us here at WebJunction. I do hope that works, but some people are *so* wedded to lists.

Best of luck on that, Chrystie!!!


Message was edited by: librarybob
Re: Christie's recent trolling :-)
7:50 PM EDT 8/4/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I've been a lurker on PUBLIB for quite awhile. Lately, I've really been able to get the word out about WJ through PUBLIB for many things. There's a lot of good stuff going on in that group! They are a very well established community and I'm glad to be a part of them, and to let them know what we're up to over here from time to time.

But, there is even more to it than that! By 2005, all of the SunSITE lists and services will be hosted by WebJunction. The lists will remain active, of course, but we're very very excited to welcome them all to the WebJunction Community (of communities?) and we hope to see a little bit more crossover between those communities and ours here on All Aboard.
Re: Christie's recent trolling :-)
7:01 PM EDT 8/5/04 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Hey Bob, how about a brewski? I'll take a dark Pickwick Ale.

Here's my quote:

<i>"I've been a lurker on PUBLIB for quite awhile."</i> - Chrystie Hill, famous lurker
Re: Christie's recent trolling :-)
10:10 AM EDT 8/6/04 as a reply to < maddog >.
One Pickwick dark, comin' up!

Where've you been hangin' lately, maddog?
Re: freshing sudz
11:25 AM EDT 8/7/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
<i>slurrrrrrrrp</i>

ahhhh - thanks

<i>{wiping foam from muzzle}</i>

Mostly I have been either working or hanging out at the lake. I have been kind of scarce online as a result. I have internet access at work but not much time to utilize it.

How about you Bob? How have you been spending your summer?
Re: freshing sudz
9:59 PM EDT 8/7/04 as a reply to < maddog >.
Working, mostly, but taking off a day here and there.

Just finished up the initial iteration for a local web directory that I'm putting together in cooperation with the Chamber of Commerce. It'll likely be up in a few weeks ... it's amazing how many sites exist and how hard they are to find.

It's something I think all public libraries should be doing. Google can't restrict itself easily and Yahoo's pretty much given up indexing.
local index
9:03 AM EDT 8/10/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Sounds like a valuable resource for your patrons. Will you give us a peek in the shameless self promotion topic?
Re: local index
10:48 AM EDT 8/10/04 as a reply to < maddog >.
Once it's on the website, sure.

By the way, I'll be on vacation for the next few days ... so if anyone wants to tend bar, feel free!


Message was edited by: librarybob
Re: local index
12:45 PM EDT 9/2/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Are you back yet?
I just found a great quote, source unknown, ""God grant me the serenity to delegate tasks when appropriate, the
courage to say no, and the wisdom to know when to go home."
Make mine a ginger ale, so the fizz up my nose will wake me up.

Bs
Re: local index
6:06 PM EDT 9/2/04 as a reply to Robert Spence.
Ha!

Yes, I'm back. I was in Orlando when Charley came through -- a far smaller storm than Frances, but enough to wake a person up!


Nice quote. One ginger ale coming up!


Message was edited by: librarybob
Re: ady to get a life again
8:50 PM EDT 9/23/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I haven't been in here for awhile. Got sucked down into the vortex of homework and volunteering and graduation requirements, but now I am a newly minted Information Professional. ;)

With an MLIS under my belt, I am ready to have a life again -- and a job. Did you know that when you do a spell check here on 'MLIS' it suggests that maybe I meant to say mulish, or Lisa or Lois. Does this bode well for my future?

I am going to dish up my all-time favorite quotation about 21st century libraries here in exchange for a straight shot of Meyer's Dark Rum. (It's the seafarer in me.)

This is verse eighteen from librarian Andy Barnett's radical new interpretation of Lao Tzu's I Ching, called The Book of the Library and its Ways:

When the Library is forgotten,
kiosks and portals arise.
When telecom laws are passed and dot.coms are born,
the great pretense begins.

When there is no community,
the global village and virtual community arise.
When the country is confused and in chaos,
information scientists appear.


Kind of sums it all up nicely, doesn't it?

Betha
Re: ady to get a life again
5:04 PM EDT 9/24/04 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Sums it very well ... one Meyer's Dark for you!

The thing is, though, the unity is of "mind" and of "understanding" rather more than it is of hardware, software, or even books. Or so I see it.

Reminds me of Louis Shores's writing.
Re: ady to get a life again
5:15 PM EDT 9/26/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Thanks for cluing me into Louis Shores. It sounds like his ideas run parallel to mine. I have a book of his on hold for me @ my library -- I'll let you know if I find anything quotable.

I agree about the unity of mind and understanding. Germaine Greer expresses some of that nicely:

Libraries are reservoirs of strength, grace and wit, reminders of order, calm and continuity, lakes of mental energy, neither warm nor cold, light nor dark.... In any library in the world, I am at home, unselfconscious, still and absorbed.

But then, there are always those utilitarian types who have their own opinion about libraries:

Th' first thing to have in a libry is a shelf. Fr'm time to time this can be decorated with lithrachure. But th' shelf is th' main thing.
~Finley Peter Dunne

Since it is already midway through sunday afternoon and I should be outside taming the shrubbery, I'll have a double tall mocha to go.
Re: ady to get a life again
2:33 PM EDT 9/27/04 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
One tall double mocha, to go!

Dunne, of course, knew a thing or two about politicians. Which, I think, is pretty self-explanatory to some of our city library colleagues fighting for a piece of the budget pie.

((rant))

The big issue, I think, is: what is librarianship? The answer, I think, is more readily found in the abstracted concept of "knowledge management" than it is in anything that can be taught at what is, after all, a basic master's level set of technically oriented courses. It's a different set of skills -- ones that rely upon what's in the librarian's skull rather more than what one finds in Dewey schedules or LCSH.

Now, of course, "knowledge management" is frequently (generally) veering toward database management -- which is what we've been doing for the last 400 years, with books instead of datbases.

((/rant))
Barbarians at the gates (again!)
2:39 PM EDT 10/8/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I came across the following and wonder what people think:

Barbarians at the Gates of the Public Library:
How Postmodern Consumer Capitalism Threatens Democracy,
Civil Education and the Public Good


Nice long read. I don't entirely agree ... I do think the lack of rigor in the profession (both in selection and in reference performance) contribute to a devaluing of what libraries do ... but I do agree that "consumerism" threatens democracy and, by extension, public libraries.
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
4:55 PM EDT 10/8/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Bob,

This reminds me of a few articles i recently saw in American Libraries: Staying Public, the real crisis in librarianship and Restore our destiny - full, not plural, funding. The authors of these articles take issue with the entrepreneurial and business or commercial shift happening right now for libraries (but also many other public institutions).

I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I am a big socialist-at-heart. I want *everything* to be fully funded and for the public good. On the other hand, I appreciate the vigor/energy/spirit of a entrepreneurial environment. I have wish that you could have both at the same time.

I printed the article you mentioned and plan to read it over the weekend.
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
9:30 PM EDT 10/8/04 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
I do wonder how the "socialismus" varies depending upon location. Illinois has lots of districts -- which levy their own taxes and are not responsible to a higher level of government. Hence, there's not as much pressure to lower library costs so police departments can be funded.
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
1:27 AM EDT 10/12/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
"The infotainment telesector is a threat not only to democracy and the public domain, but to reason itself."
-- Ed D’Angelo

Whoa, this is heady stuff. I could use a pint of Flying Dog Pale Ale to help digest it all. Actually, I have only read chapters 10 & 12, but I am quite impressed with young Mr. D’Angelo’s scholarship.

The authors of a study on "library as place" came to a similar, though less radical, conclusion when they looked at the new Vancouver Public Library. To make up for underfunding by government, the VPL put corporate logos on its library cards – the first public library in North America to do so.

The study concludes that
"The library is becoming increasingly co-opted by multiple private interests," and is put in "direct competition for patrons with the commercial megabookstore and video retail chains."
The greatest threat to the library’s position as a unique pubic space "is not technological, but ideological: the encroachment of private interests in the form of commodification and branding."
--Leckie and Hopkins. (2002). The Public Place of Central Libraries. Library Quarterly, 72(3), 326-372.
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
1:46 PM EDT 10/12/04 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
One Flying Dog coming up!

[wiping bar]

I have to think there are a number of issues here and that "public place" and "infotainment" are just two of them ... but important facets, to be sure.

If this is the so-called "information age," then why aren't libraries at the very center of the revolution?
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
2:21 PM EDT 10/26/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
But they are, aren't they? The last beacon of democracy, and all that!?

I haven't been here for such a long time, I am due for a drink. I'll have my usual.

A change in the weather is sufficient to recreate the world and ourselves. - (my new friend) Proust
Barbarians at the gates (again!)
3:36 PM EDT 10/26/04 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
One Grey Goose martini, coming up!

I think we librarians assume that we're at the center of the information world ... we used to be, in a way, but we're really repositories. Librarians aren't well trained to be active participants.

Matthew Lesko wrote an article a few years back asking why libraries aren't at the center of the information universe. He rather wishes they were, but he does make a very good living (I think!) from all of the books he sells to people who aren't using their public libraries to learn what they wish to know.

To some degree, I suppose, we intimidate folks.
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
9:08 PM EST 11/30/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Know what, LB? I swear I replied to this topic days ago, and now it's not here. Did you ever see it?
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
12:45 PM EST 12/9/04 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Oops ... I dozed off at a bad time!

Nope, didn't see it. :-(
wake up service
11:17 AM EST 12/11/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
<img src="http://www.electricminds.org/~maddog/gif/coffdonut.gif" alt="the solution for your problem" title="the solution for your problem">


<i>{ serving up a strong cup of coffee with a side order of sugar for the sleepy bartender }</i>
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
1:48 PM EST 12/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
It's been pretty quiet around here lately. It's nice to see that the fireplace is crackling away. Can I help you string some festive lights? Maybe we can attract a few merrymakers in here to celebrate the Winter Solstice and the return of the light.
<img src="http://home.myuw.net/blg3/images/XmasLights_anim.gif" title="holiday lights" alt="blinking holiday lights">

That cup o' coffee from the 'dog looks mighty stimulating, especially if you add a shot of kahlua.

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that
(Martin Luther King, Jr. Where Do We Go from Here: Chaos or Community?, 1967)
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
6:15 PM EST 12/13/04 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Love the lights! I'll have a Tom & Jerry (appropriate for here, don't you think?). Maybe with enough of those I'll be able to join the Show Me Your Tattoo group...

<i>for a quote pick any of your favorite lines from A Christmas Story - there are too many to choose just one!</i>
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
8:56 AM EST 12/14/04 as a reply to Pam Henley.
hmmmm, I guess the bartender is still snoozing...

How about if I just leave the whole bottle for you, blg3? I wouldn't want to put in too small of a shot!

<img src="http://www.goodwinlibrary.com/bin/kahlua.jpg" alt="yummy yummy!" title="yummy yummy!">

Here's your drink phenley, but you have to catch it first! Do you think I should go grab some cheese?

<img src="http://www.goodwinlibrary.com/bin/tomandjerry.jpg" alt="Be careful, it's hot!" title="Be careful, it's hot!">
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
10:57 AM EST 12/14/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
LB, are you still snoozing?? I think my post went something like this:

Really? Intimidate? Why do you think so? Do you mean that sometimes librarians are not customer/patron-centered and like to read their New Yorker magazines at the reference desk? I think that librarians are now learning to become more involved as information retrievers and educators, rather than as the keepers of information repositories.

But do you think there's still an intimidation factor there? Even though we promise (and try to practice) equal access and non-judgement?

Also, I am still reading your link to the Barbarian at the Gates article. Very interesting. I think we should start a separate topic on this thread (in funding?) when we start in on the 'Demonstrating Impact' theme next month.

But do library staff, or even library directors, have time to think about the big privatization dilemma? Even if we do it with eyes wide open, don't we have to 'just do it' to survive? (I'm not holding this opinion, just asking the question...)

And, can I get a quote for that??
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
1:25 PM EST 12/16/04 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
[Popping up from behind bar]

Oops. Damned sleeping pills ....

Yes, worth a drink I think. :-)

I think the profession has been lax, in general, in proclaiming its value to the community. I just sent out a letter to various mayors showing how the average library-using family in my district uses $1650 worth of material in a year, not to mention the other services we provide.

As long as we see ourself as "just a repository" I'm afraid we're offering low-hanging fruit that someone of the "privatization" side will try to pick.
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
6:19 PM EST 12/16/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Are you making the argument that we can use typical ROI types of arguments in order to preserve the common good principle? I'm not finished reading the article, but wouldn't the Barbarian/Gates (pun?) guy say that it's dangerous to try to beat them at their own game?

I'm not sure how I feel about any of it. On the one hand, I'm a lefty-radical who likes the idea of all public, all good, all the time. On the other hand, I like to be innovative, flexible, and growth-oriented (like an entrepreneur? or is that just a myth that the capital junkies try to sell us?). Sometimes I feel like I have two personalities on this issue.

A friend of mine recently said 'There's nothing inconsistent about making libraries responsible (fiscally) for the resources required to provide their services.' To which I replied 'that's compelling, but can I still be a commie?' emoticon

BTW: would you mind sharing that letter with us? Maybe you could add it as an attachment here.
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
12:55 PM EST 12/17/04 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
The ROI argument works for certain things, I think ... but I do think our "problem" goes deeper. *We* as a profession do not value intellect, education, or the arts all that much ... we value our collections rather more than what people actually *do* with them.

The ROI argument works if you've got the ROI, but it might be better to go back to Archibald MacLeish's concept of "Arsenal of Democracy." ;-)

Let's see if I can attach that puppy ...
Attachments: Letter_to_Round_Lake_Beach_mayor,_2004.doc (30.0k)   
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
1:00 PM EST 12/20/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Bob,

Great letter. I'd like to post it as a content item as part of our "Demonstrating Impact" focus for January. If you're interested, drop me a line at andersoj@oclc.org and we can work out the details.

If others of you have similar materials that you'd like to see as part of this focus, let me know.

Good discussion. I'm exploring the possibility of getting part of the "Barbarians" piece over to WJ as well.

Joe Anderson
Editor & Content Manager
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
2:00 PM EST 12/21/04 as a reply to Bob Watson.
There was a parallel discussion in the [url http://webjunction.org/forums/thread.jspa?forumID=19&threadID=863&messageID=8528#8528 ]Funding & Advocacy forum[/url] about the importance of keeping the focus on the library-as-beacon-of-democracy.

some words for the Winter Solstice ...

"There are two ways of spreading light:
to be the candle or
the mirror that reflects it
."
--Edith Wharton
Re: Barbarians at the gates (again!)
10:57 AM EST 12/27/04 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Well, if you'll pardon the sleepy bartender (which is a lie ... I've been mousing around in Orlando with the family), that quote's certainly worth a drink at St. Jerry's.

What'll you have?
Re: a New Year for Barbarians
4:12 PM EST 1/1/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I have been spending too much time sitting around in airports recently. It is now the first day of the new year and I am consumed by a librarian obsession to clean up my home office and organize my files. Someone asked me if I am more organized now than I was before going through the MLIS program. Absolutely, I am! But I am also tending to collect more documents, so it's still an ongoing struggle to keep the piles of paper on the desk under control.

How about an extra dry double-shot cappuccino to facilitate the process?

Oh yes, and a link to [url http://users.hol.gr/~barbanis/cavafy/barbarians.html ]Cavafy's timeless words[/url] about those Barbarians.
Re: a New Year for Barbarians
5:42 PM EST 1/2/05 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
As dry as can be ...

here you go!
Re: a New Year for Barbarians
7:57 PM EST 2/3/05 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Every burned book enlightens the world. -Emerson

Check out our new Intellectual Freedom forum (under Policies & Practices) for the topic Challenges to Bless Me Ultima.

Sometimes I'm just surprised, again, by folks. I'll have my usual; make it a double.
fox in the hen house
8:27 AM EST 3/15/05 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
I wasn't sure if I sileneced the bar with the eerie Led Zeppelin clip or if our software bugs were the culprit. Either way I decided to stop by and remove the post but found that I could access my host tools. I went over to the Mods forum to post about that and only then noticed I didn't have a post box in any topic on the site! I remembered something librarybob wrote in an email that he had encountered similar issues with IE6 but that he could post with Firefox, so here I am with Firefox.

As Lysander said, “<i>Where the lion’s skin will not reach, it must be pieced with the fox’s.</i>”

Plutarch (A.D. 46?–A.D. c. 120)
Apophthegms of Kings and Great Commanders.

Make mine a hot chocolate!
Re: fox in the hen house
11:28 AM EST 3/21/05 as a reply to < maddog >.
this forum is finally fixed!

now - harry - i can tell you most certainly that you did not silence st. jerry's. it was the software...ug.

now let's get back about our business here: I'll have a lemonaid!

They have computers, and they may have other weapons of mass destruction. -Janet Reno
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:18 PM EDT 5/19/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
It would be ungracious not to respond to a personal invitation, even in the midst of...well, total uncertainty. (The same "life goes on" attitude in which I've gone back to doing blog posts at Walt at Random.)

So, here I am. I'm using "waltc" partly because I may have previously registered under a different username and forgotten all about it, partly because there's definitely more than one "Walt" in the library field, and the last initial helps avoid confusion. "c" stands for "Crawford," in case there's further confusion. (Far as I know, I'm the only Walt Crawford with any online activity in the library field...)

Too early in the day for my drink of choice, so for now, "Hi."
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:00 PM EDT 5/19/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Welcome to St. Jerry's! Just to clue you in, the coffee here is the finest you can imagine --every cup freshly brewed just for you.

I'm glad to see you're maintaining a semblance of "normality." I've heard from every corner of Library World that change is on everyone's heels these days. "Change is the only constant" is an old idea, but does seem to have accelerated lately. Having survived many years of my own self-induced changes, I might have hoped for some quasi-stability in the later years, but I guess I didn't choose the right profession for that. No more [url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creeping_normalcy ]creeping normalcy[/url] for us --the increments are quite noticeable.

In spite of all the curve balls, I am constantly impressed with the agility of response from many individuals and organizations in library land. We have a lot of insecurity about change, but that's coupled with a lot of creative thinking and "can-do" forward motion. I remain hopeful for the future of libraries.

...and for your future, waltc. emoticon
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:34 PM EDT 5/19/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Let me second Betha. :-)

Welcome to St. Jerry's ... coffee house, etc. (I hope you've read the intro.)

Many more things than usual seem "up for grabs." As I'm an administrator, some of my job seems to be in keeping it that way.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
10:16 AM EDT 5/24/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
<wiping the bar>

Maybe it's time to raise an issue.

Elsewhere online I'm involved in a discussion about cooperation, with one of the issues being "free riders" and how they can destroy a commons unless somehow controlled.

The internet is, of course, a commons -- but a very expandable one. It's at first hard to see how "free riders" are a problem.

Until, that is, you do a Google search and find the first several pages filled with what are, essentially, sale pitches. The free riders of the internet do not destroy the net, they merely make it very hard to use.

This may well be an opportunity for librarians.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:37 PM EDT 5/30/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm pretty sure that you're not referring to those motorcyclists who proudly proclaim themselves as “[url http://freeridersclub.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4&mode=flat&order=0&thold=0 ]free riders[/url].” Wikipedia tells me that the"[url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_rider_problem ]free riders[/url]" are "actors who consume more than their fair share of a resource." I'd like to hear more of your definition of the term in relation to an online community like ours.

The (Wikipedia again) entry for [url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_network ]social networks[/url] talks about a functional limit to the size of a community, online and otherwise. This aligns with the conclusions of Clay Shirky in his article [url http://shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html ]A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy[/url] (thanks to Chrystie for that article). It seems that it is hard for humans to sustain meaningful discourse beyond a certain number of participants. The trick in a large online space is to create the illusion of smaller communities within. We've done that here with the Rural Sustainability and the Spanish Language forums.

This post from the [url http://headrush.typepad.com/creating_passionate_users/2005/06/building_a_succ.html ]Creating Passionate Users[/url] blog claims that the key to success is to maintain the over-arcing rule: "Be Friendly!" I think, however, it is quite possible to have overly-friendly free riders.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:54 PM EDT 5/30/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Heh. I've seen "serious discussion spaces" dissolve under the onslaught of other people "passing the time." I haven't seen it go the other way, but I suppose it could happen that a discussion on zero point energy break out in someone's Jennifer Anniston fan-blog.

It's a matter of "utility" (broadly defined) for the people involved.

We're pretty much focused on library issues, here, and I don't see us "over-populated" in the sense Shirky means. There's very old research, by the way, on social networks that indicate that about 120 people is the most that people can grok face-to-face. That's supposedly why an army company is about that size (more-or-less).

We're pretty sparse on "free-riders" here, as far as I can tell. If you're not a librarian this must be b-o-r-i-n-g. ;-)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:16 PM EDT 5/31/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
And here I was polishing my post on zero point energy before logging on to my fave Aniston fanblog. Busted.

Probaby irrelevant (or is that possible in this forum), but: I've been reminded recently just how much more polite library folks are when taking part in virtual semi-conversations than, say, the average geek. That's particularly noteworthy when there's an exception--when a library person starts YELLING at others or dismissing their concerns--but those exceptions are relatively rare.

By comparison, I had occasion to review the comment stream on a post--not on slashdot but on a reasonably narrow, respectable site--that posited the idea that, at least for lots of people, single-function portable devices will work better for their particular function than multifunction devices. The tone of many comments started with "You're a moron" and went downhill from there.

(Which, now that I think on it, could connect to Real Library Concerns: If library patrons behave as well in library settings as librarians do on the internet, which by and large I believe to be true, maybe some of the fears attached to "social OPACs" are overblown. Hmm. I guess we'll find out, between Hennepin and other experiments...oops, Hennepin's a MySpace situation. What public libraries are experimenting with user-contributed content?)

Message was edited by:
waltc
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:43 PM EDT 5/31/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
It's hard to be irrelevent at St. Jerry's.

I hope! ;-)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:46 PM EDT 5/31/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
I think you are probably right in thinking that most library patrons behave very well in library settings, whether in the physical library or online. The more likely source of problems may be with the various forms of spamming. But I hope that this won't discourage libraries from opening up to patron contributions.

My favorite example of a library experimenting with user-contributed content is the western springs history project http://www.westernspringshistory.org/ of the Thomas Ford Memorial Library http://www.fordlibrary.org/. Aaron Schmidt wrote about it here: http://www.webjunction.org/do/DisplayContent?id=11259
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
10:34 AM EDT 6/1/06 as a reply to Steve DelVecchio.
I dunno. I've spent 8 hours in small claims court this past month due to a patron who claims we're picking on him and that he *does* return things on time.

Must be our lying computer ....

I think library users are pretty much a cross-section of the community, though likely a bit more literate. Leastways I hope so.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
7:34 PM EDT 6/6/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I could agree that most library staff behave with courtesy in group situations, both online and off. Patrons are a different matter. If their behavior were somehow elevated above the rest of humanity, we would probably not have created an [url /do/DisplayContent?id=11084 ]article[/url], a [url /do/Navigation?category=442#UniversityofNorthTexasLe@dCourses03850 ]course[/url], and a [url /forums/click.jspa?searchID=7534&messageID=21002 ]discussion[/url] on the topic of managing difficult patron behavior. ;)

As for libraries’ foray into social software environments, the greater threat than a flood of rude public comment may be that nobody notices. I looked at several profiles of MySpace libraries before I found [url http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=74165973 ]one[/url] that actually had comments in response to its blog entries. All comments were posted by the same “Torn at the Heart” joker, who seemed to be most interested in promoting himself. I also looked at [url http://www.mjcpl.org/?s=Library-Buzz ]several[/url] [url http://emporialibrary.blogspot.com/ ]public-facing[/url] [url http://bowmanbookworm.blogspot.com/ ]library[/url] [url http://www.laneteenzone.org/ ]blogs[/url], searching high and low for a comment from the targeted public. The much-touted success of AADL and Western Springs History project may be more of an anomaly than the norm. The silence is a bit discouraging.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
11:43 AM EDT 6/8/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I suppose there are several issues here ... one might be related to why so few people write letters to the editor. It's scary putting your name on a post, doubly so in a "professional environment" where your peers will unconscioualy grade you.

IMO, YMMV, etc.

<wiping counter>

Coffee?

Or ... gad, it must be after 5 somewhere in the world. ;-)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:12 PM EDT 6/8/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Well, it's now just past 5 PM in Rio Grande do Norte (Brazil), but it's only lunchtime here, so I would love a cup of St. Jerry's best black coffee. emoticon

For some, it may be a case of "posting fear" --not wanting one's words broadcast worldwide in cyberspace. However, looking at the huge number of egocentric blogs, Flickr photos, and MySpace profiles, it seems that shyness is not the problem.

People want to hang out where it’s cool to be 'seen,' so they gravitate to the most happenin' places. Will "social OPACs," ever be seen as cool? Maybe it’s also a case of too much splintering, too many opportunities to add your $.02 in too many obscure corners. The monolithic entities get all the traffic, finding safety (and hipness) in numbers.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:29 PM EDT 6/8/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Jamaican Blue Mountain do?

<pouring cup>

Here you go.

I've been wondering about the coolness factor for some time now. Now that jr. high kids are on MySpace, how cool can that be?

It's *so done* that everyone's found it.

And yet ... six or seven years ago, when I was paying attention to the matter, I noted that wherever I traveled in "online discussion space" I was likely to find someone I knew. It is true that many more people are online, but maybe more because they "have" to be ... which is why so many looking-for-cool kids migrate to MySpace.

I suspect the bloom is off and that the web has matured.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
11:52 AM EDT 6/9/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
[Make mine Kauai, black.]

Interesting points being raised. Will people really flock to tag catalog records and provide their own reviews, in numbers large enough to matter? Or is there a limit to how much people provide comments? (The letters to editors note is a key one...)

As to sustainability and continued wild growth and impact of every social software site: Checked your Orkut account lately? [I think I still have one, because I don't know of any way to delete them...]

I'm guessing we'll see some significant successes. I'm also guessing they'll be relatively sparse. That leaves the tough issue of figuring out what makes library-social-software successes happen.

All of which is way too serious for a Friday morning. Apologies. My first real post; I'll do better later.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:28 PM EDT 6/9/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
One Kauai coffee, coming up!

<rummaging for scones>

Yes, a lot of social software has gone belly up. I tend to think sharing is, necessarily, task-focused ... and it is the "long term focus on a task" that defines a profession.

That's not to say shared and/or distributed tagging isn't useful ... it's likely critical if we're to reach people who cannot/will not use conventional labels. And that's all of us, I think, at one time or another.

<Hmmm ...>

Anyone seen the scones?

Message was edited by:
librarybob
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:53 PM EDT 6/9/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Just popping in with some <a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/somethingsoclever/142222571/ "><img src="http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=142222571&size=s" width="240" height="169" border="0" target="_blank" />fresh scones</a>.

thanks to [url http://www.flickr.com/photos/somethingsoclever/ ]Alicat3 on Flickr[/url] for photo and recipe.

I'll do some cogitating with my (still steaming!) cup of Jamaican Blue Mountain and get back to you all later.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:54 PM EDT 6/9/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Yummy!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:57 PM EDT 6/9/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
[coming up from under piles of posts and emails both unread and unanswered]

my thought is that there has to be some usefulness behind it. it can't just be "the right thing to do" or "isn't this cool?" or "i'm bored".

the message boards at webjunction work for one of two (super generalized) reasons. First, people have an information need and they can't easily find the answer elsewhere, so they go to their peers. Second, they like to proactively share/collaborate/learn. the reasons why social software works for library staff might easily be transferred to our service to library patrons: if they need it, find it useful, or simply enjoy connecting with others online - they will use it.

[/coming up]
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:17 PM EDT 6/10/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Based on the past couple of comments: I apologize for taking so long to join this hangout (after a kind invitation). Good thinking here--the kind that helps me think and broaden my horizons. I'll try to remember to check in every day or two (except, of course, when I'm traveling).
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
7:56 PM EDT 6/10/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Must be the coffee or the scones ...

In my case, we're currently rebuilding our website and will be adding a blog or two.

At first, these will not allow for comments (I'm not at all sure how a public tax-supported entity edits out the public voice when said public voice is merely obnoxious and rude). But every department will have a day in the week to say something ... I think this is actually the hard part.

It's in the department head objectives.

But ... we'll be setting up the second blog to focus on book reviews and will be inviting the public to contribute (after staff review of potential posts). *If* we can sustain focus on book reviews (as opposed, say, to comments on local politics or politicians), then I think we'll be able to enable the comment feature.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:16 PM EDT 6/13/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Having just cleared a dozen spam comments off of one of my old blog posts, I see the "social OPAC problem" is more likely to arise from spammers and advertisers than it is from unruly patrons.

'waltc', I'm glad you find the conversation here informative --"useful" is an operative word in social networking. [url http://meredith.wolfwater.com/wordpress/index.php/2006/05/10/libraries-in-social-networking-software/ ]Meredith Farkas says[/url] “I hate the idea of implementing new things at libraries because they’re ‘cool’ and not to serve a specific purpose.” While generally enthusiastic about libraries having a presence in social networking sites like MySpace, she thinks “most libraries are doing it really badly.” They are not differentiating between “being where our patrons are” and “being USEFUL to our patrons where they are.” (It’s a long post worth the read, especially for the “treasure trove of links to blog posts and other useful resources about the place of libraries in social networking software.”)

One of the comments on Meredith's post hit home for me:
“We all are craving to be heard, and even more so acknowledged."

That is an essential ingredient in social networking. Anyone can now create a blog as a virtual soapbox, but we all want some confirmation that someone is listening. The social spaces create that sense of being heard as part of something bigger --or at least the illusion of being heard.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:45 PM EDT 6/14/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I'm with Meredith on the useful issue. (Heck, I'm with Meredith on lots of issues...) I think one of the major issues with social software/web services/"Library 2.0" at this point is finding out what does work, where, and when, and communicating ways to use that knowledge to improve success (usefulness) rates. (Given that each library is unique, it's not one set of answers; it might be a developing set of success stories and honest "failure" documentation, building into hints and guidelines. Hmm. I think there's a wiki for Library Success somewhere...) I suspect WebJunction can/will be/is a big player here.

Oddly enough, I mention some of those issues (and cite Meredith at least once, I'm sure) in a sizable essay on "Finding a balance: Libraries and librarians" in the July issue of Cites & Insights (yes, I'm that waltc, if there was any question), which will appear this evening (Gaia willing and the creek don't rise)... and have been thinking about/discussing them more as time goes on. (And how I might be useful in this process, as well...maybe even in a future career role. Who knows?)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:25 PM EDT 6/14/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
One of our problems is that, largely, administrators are quite blind about "computer technology" and even more so about "social software," with the result being that IT-types encourage tools that make sense in an "IT community ecology" but do not make sense in the broader patron ecology.

That's probably most true in the public library community.

That said, I think many IT-types in libraryland are overly influenced by our vendors -- and that our vendors are not necessarily aware of what's been happening on the wild and wooley web.

I'm adding this after a few minutes:

One of the current problems lies in monetizing social software ... MySpace claims millions of eyeballs, but are they actually making money? If not, they'll go the way of Orkut et al.

Paradoxically, this may be an advantage for libraries since we don't usually have to show a profit. I'm thinking that in a few months I might be able to start an online forum (a community of practice) for local non-profits wanting to talk to each other outside of our quarterly Community Forum meetings.

Message was edited by:
librarybob
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:23 PM EDT 6/14/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
gosh, could I have a tall cool ale to go with those scones!

I know ale doesn't necessarily go with scones but it's quite hot today.

thanks!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
7:03 PM EDT 6/14/06 as a reply to Valeria Tullius.
There's always a place for ale (and 'most anything else) at St. Jerry's!

Here you go.

I'm glad you walked in ... what do you think? Where is L2 taking libraries? Where is it taking librarians?

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
7:37 PM EDT 6/14/06 as a reply to Valeria Tullius.
free drinks for everyone! emoticon i'll have my usual, now that i'm sort of back-ish.

my secret thought through this whole WJ project/experiement has been if we can figure out how to get librarians "on board" (sorry for the silly pun) with this stuff, we can then help them deliver these types of services to patrons.

waltc, did you know you can "subscribe" to this topic if you don't want to have to remember to visit us? just click on "watch this topic" after you login and you'll get either a digest or a message everytime someone posts (depending on the preferences you have set up in your profile)

and for the record, i often agree with meredith as well. she's one of my heroines, but i'm also extremely jealous that she gets to put the words "LJ cover girl" on her librarian trading card. i want that!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:16 PM EDT 6/15/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
I actually sort of like dropping by every day or two. Things get mushed in Bloglines and Gmail. Sometimes I forget to unmush them. (Should that be "mooshed"? You know what I mean.)

And, not to take things into the real world, Chrystie, but if you're going to be in the Little Easy (I don't know: What do you call the half of New Orleans that's there?) for ALA, I'd enjoy chatting at some point. (If ground transport from the airport's slow, I might miss the WebJunction reception...) If you would also and are going to be there, let me know offline (waltcrawford@gmail.com), and I'll send my skeleton schedule...

"LJ cover girl." Now that's recognition. I occasionally wonder whether I should be grateful that LJ didn't slam First Have Something to Say (as they did my previous two books), or sad that they didn't review it at all...I've settled for neutral.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:44 PM EDT 6/15/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Here you go, Chrystie.

Nice issue, Walt. I'm glad, I think, that my tin ear means that the discoverable differences between high-prices amps are, ah, quite meaningless.

I do think that WebJunction can become a depository of "best practices." That implies someone reviewing them every-so-often, though.

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:00 PM EDT 6/15/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'd agree on both counts. (That WJ could be a "best practices" repository--and that frequent review would be needed.) It gets more complicated, as you know, since "best" practices in many cases vary by library, but...

Too early for the cocktail, I'm afraid (and my tipple of choice would be Chardonnay, even when dining at a brewpub, I'm chagrined to say), but I'll think of it as really nice herbal tea in an unusual glass. And go fix myself some really nice herbal tea in my ALA 100 coffee mug!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:03 PM EDT 6/15/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Duh. I think I responded in part to a response to Chrystie..but I've been thinking along similar lines (as my long-time interest in public libraries ramps up with the coming move to OCLC employment...) I guess I should switch that tea to something with a little caffeine. Signing a dozen+ employment-related forms scrambles the brain. (Hey, the excuse only works one day, so I'll make the most of it!)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:24 PM EDT 6/15/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Wooo ... the bartender's confused again. Maybe a jasmine tea will split the difference between "herb tea" and a bit o' caffeine.

<wiping counter>

But, yes, there's a lot WebJunction or something similar could do. A general advocacy, maybe, rather than a specific one.

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:48 PM EDT 6/16/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Now that it's Friday, I should admit that scare quotes around "herb tea" make good sense. Herbal teas are not teas, they're infusions.

There's your Useless Friday Fact.

Not that any of the makers are going to stop calling them tea; you pour hot water over a bag full'o'stuff and let it sit for a while, getting a hot flavored beverage out of it: That's tea. Even when it isn't.

To conclude this digression: As far as I know, there's one (and only one) variety of "herbal tea" that has a single ingredient. (I could always be wrong, of course.) Ready to serve me a mug of that infusion? (Know what it is?)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:11 PM EDT 6/16/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Well, chamomile is one such ... or so it says here: http://www.celestialseasonings.com/products/product/1087.php

That didn't take much searching ... we've got at least eight varieties of herbal teas in our kitchen at home. Our 12-year old son loves chamomile tea and always has.

But maybe there are others. Let me see ...

Peppermint and lemongrass, I think.



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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:46 PM EDT 6/16/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
OK, that was a surprise: The chamomiles I'd seen were typical multi-herbal blends. (Never much cared for them, which may account for my lack of knowledge.)

I was thinking of peppermint: It's pretty much always just peppermint leaves.

But there's a kicker here as well: When the SF Chronicle's food-tasting panel tasted peppermint teas a couple of years back, the highest-rated product wasn't pure peppermint. It was Bigelow's Mint Medley, which on the front says "a refreshing blend of peppermint and spearmint" but is actually a more typical blend of several different ingredients (it also has rose hips, lemon peel, hibiscus flowers).

Ah, the wonders of good reference work. (There's always a library connection, if you just look hard enough.)

And lemongrass: You're right there too, even if some of the commercial ones are blends.

So there are three categories of herbal tea:

Pure single-ingredient infusions

Blends that don't include any actual tea leaves

Herb/tea blends (flavored teas - LOTS of those around).

The first two almost never have any caffeine. The third almost always do, unless they use decaffeinated tea leaves.

waltc, getting back to work while drinking...water.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:05 PM EDT 6/16/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
I knew the peppermint one, was guessing on lemongrass since what I'd read was unclear. :-)

I'm back to work as well, drafting a dress code and drinking Folgers (tag phrase: "It's somewhat better than nothing!").
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:56 PM EDT 6/16/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Ahhhh --Friday afternoons.

I wanted to welcome 'valeria' who stepped in awhile ago for some scones and ale. No worries in St. Jerry's: everything goes well together here. emoticon

And it's great to see Chrystie "back-ish" --the doors are always open.

Walt, I always look forward to your “insights” and this issue is no exception. I also always stand in awe of your prolific output –must be those infusions you drink. ;)

quoting 'waltc':
“I’m deeply suspicious of claims that American public libraries are failing or
becoming irrelevant: I think they go against all available evidence


My sentiments exactly! Every time I visit a physical library, I am struck by the bustling activity inside. Okay, I live in a city that is an enclave of liberalism and has a [url http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13278190/ ]highly-educated[/url] population, but I hear corroboration of this experience from all over libraryland, much of it validated by circulation and door count stats. We've been hearing this since the advent of the Web. I think the same "libraries are dead" editorial gets pulled from the files and repurposed over and over again like an errant content object.

We're having a little "ice cream social" in our office today. I don't suppose they'll have any kahlua chocolate sauce to pour over my sundae.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
9:15 PM EDT 6/16/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Hi, Valeria. Heck, I can see scones and ale. Scones and bock might be pushing it, but scones and hefeweizen, definitely.

Friday ice cream social? What a...um...sociable idea! I wonder whether there will be one last "TGTG" a week from today where I work? ("Thank God They're Gone," held as a pizza lunch on the Friday of Midwinter and Annual, dating back to the days when as many as 1/5 or more of RLG's staff would be at ALA. I've never been to one, to be sure, since despite being a low-level employee at work I've always been one of "They" where ALA attendance is concerned.)

I 'preciate the compliment on this issue. I'll admit to some pride in the primary essay, both because I think it represents an appropriately upbeat perspective on a confusing set of situations--and because I put it together while perhaps the most personally unsettling parts of the OCLC/RLG merger were/are going on.

As for prolific: Bob Nardini, the YBP vice-president who arranged sponsorship for C&I and who recently suggested carrying some C&I pieces in YBP Academia, also suggested that I do an essay on how I manage to do C&I. One of these days, maybe I will. "Lazy but efficient," my long-time answer, is a good truthful start, but perhaps not the whole truth.

Ah, Friday afternoon. And the weather here suddenly went back to "typical June"--bright, low to mid 80s, pleasant even though almost none of us have AC at home--from a few overcast/coolish days. [Edited a little later: Turns out "low 80s" was inside the house. Outside, just getting back from a walk, it's easily 90 degrees--and it was down to 68 inside, three mornings ago. Ah well, good practice for N'awlins. Make that an iced tea, hold the sweetening.]

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waltc at 6:15 PDT
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:31 PM EDT 6/19/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
One iced tea (or is that simply "tea" as they say in the deep south?) coming up!

I agree that there's nothing particularly dire about the public library situation, leastways in most places. It seems to be a matter of keeping abreast of public demands ... I know a few places that do not circ "popular" dvds and most of them seem to be losing circulation.

My own library's went up about 8% this past year, with TV show dvds flying off the shelves. Curiously, maybe to some, the circ for our non-fiction books has also jumped. If you get them in the door they'll look around .

I suspect that some people think we "should" be losing circ since the net is ubiquitous ... but as long as copyright, cultutal expectations, and pricing structures keep media in "atom" form (as opposed to virtual) I do not see much of a problem.

Typo fixed!
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librarybob

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:13 PM EDT 6/20/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Leaving for ALA in two days! I wonder if our office is going to start a TGTG tradtion with 2/3 of us vacating the premises. I think the ensuing calm and the end to minute-by-minute conference planning details may be enough of a celebration.

How interesting that non-fiction circulation "jumped" in the last year. I'd be very curious to know what titles are most popular. Is it all self-help books or "Eight minutes to a better golf swing" or is it more substantive investigations of world economics or social trends or the like? Always the optimist, my hope is that all the information readily available on the Web is just whetting the appetite for knowledge, making the library the next logical place to turn when Google fails to satisfy. Yes "get them in the door"!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:58 PM EDT 6/20/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
<wiping bar>

Have fun at ALA!

It's never been a high priority for me, for a number of reasons ... among them needing to help take care of our kids and having Chicago so close ... but some folks do thrive on it. I do suspect you'll be getting some actual work done. :-)

I don't know about the non-fiction but suspect it's all over the place. We're part of a big automation consortium and because people can do ILLs within the consortium without staff intervention I don't really have a good way of knowing. I suppose I could have a report run, but don't know what to ask that would be fine-tuned enough to be useful.

GIGO and all that ....
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:46 PM EDT 7/10/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Hmmm.

Probably time to mix up a batch of iced tea.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:21 PM EDT 7/11/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
That'd be perfect.

GIGO? I'm sure I'm supposed to know that.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
9:10 PM EDT 7/11/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Garbage In, Garbage Out ... the quality of the output depends on the quality of the input. Much like Congress.

Lemon with that?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
11:57 PM EDT 7/11/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Nice. Sometimes I wonder about that with the number next to my name. People around here (staff side) have stopped harassing me about it, but ... there it sits.

Yes lemon, no sweets.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
8:56 AM EDT 7/12/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Now you've stumped me. Number?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:47 PM EDT 7/12/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm guessing that C was referring to the number of posts made in these forums that is indicated below your username. Bob, you're currently showing 430; I'm up to 870; maddog has 636, but Chrystie is the grand winner with 1702! And none of it is GIGO, IMHO. ;)

ALA was quite an experience. New Orleans was very welcoming and wonderful. I'd recommend to everyone to go there, eat fabulous food, listen to fine music, and help boost their economy. I didn't manage to get outside of the downtown ("sliver by the river") and the French Quarter, so I didn't see firsthand the [url http://www.flickr.com/photos/webjunction/sets/72157594186423722/ ]devastation[/url] that is still shockingly present and unmitigated. I heard plenty of personal stories, but I felt oddly removed from the reality of New Orleans' continued suffering.

Tall and very icy lemonade was my drink of choice in NOLA.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:59 PM EDT 7/13/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I thought it might be that ... but that's pretty much a conference organizer's job.

There's a school of thought, in my view, among techy types that "if you build it, they will come." That only works with ghosts in Iowa corn fields. Equally invalid, IMO, is the view that one or two people can "put on a show" -- like in an old Mickey Rooney/Judy Garland film.

There lie the virtual ruins of many a blog.

But finding the "sweet spot" in the center seems to be a bit of a problem.

Now ... Ice tea!!!

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
10:46 PM EDT 7/13/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
A wise man once said (read above).
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:30 PM EDT 7/14/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Hmmm.

<wiping counter>

Be that as it may, the trick seems to be creating (or having created for you) compelling content.

A few bloggers ... like Walt ... have enough to offer to keep people coming. A few bloggers, combined, become quite magazinish ... with relatively little conversation, usually, on the side (though some folks will adopt themselves into a "bloggish family"). Check out BoingBoing for instance: http://www.boingboing.net/

People talking to each other may be "important for them" but maybe not for others ... so conversations need to be primed or initiated with various "issues of the day."

IMO, YMMV, etc.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:43 PM EDT 7/14/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Here I was ready to comment on Chrystie's comment yesterday, and I put it off...and the result is a possibly-unwarranted compliment. Actually, I'm d*ned if I know why Walt at Random gets as many page views per day as it does, given that I post intermittently at best, and with a topical focus that continues to justify the name of the blog. I sure do get good comments from other people on some posts, though; the conversations can be much more potent than the entries.

So, trying to tie all this together, on a Friday morning while monitoring internal report generation (don't ask...), and sipping on this "ALA100" mug of...cold water (what can I say?)...

"Build it and [he] will come" [the actual movie line, I believe] is indeed a common and unfortunate tendency, and I'm now seeing the expected defense when people are also saying "ask them what they want"--which is "delight them with the unexpected!" [whether they want or use it or not...] But that's a general discussion. As regards blogs, conversations, etc.:

It's hard to predict when a blog will become heavily conversational [never perfectly conversational, to be sure: lists and fora are still better for that in some ways]. You can predict when it won't: When comments aren't allowed, or are moderated in such a manner that the reader begins to suspect slanted moderation. Or when any questioning of the blogger is met with such lengthy and intense responses that the commenter just wants to run away.

If I knew which posts would generate long, interesting, informational, thoughtful comment threads, I'd actually plan such posts. So far, I don't see a pattern. Your timing is perfect, though: I'm just starting up the "detailed investigation" of my next "Looking at Liblogs" project (at home, of course), part of which involves quantifying the conversational activity of blogs. It might make sense to look at the most conversationally-intense blogs (within the "great middle" group I'm looking at, which excludes the most popular and least popular blogs) and the lengthiest comment threads, to see what they might have in common. Hmm.

I'd say "being willing to consider other viewpoints" was a good way to prime the pump, but I've seen highly conversational blogs where the blogger never really takes any differing opinion seriously. (I rarely subscribe to such blogs for very long...)

I always wonder about group blogs. Some seem to work well (I.a.g. being a prime example); some seem to peter out or turn into one-person affairs.

Anyway, that's enough blather for a Friday. Thanks for suggesting a new way to use up my nonexistent spare time...I think!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:32 PM EDT 7/14/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Heh ... actually, I was hoping to address the WJ condition rather than the blogosphere.

But inspiration comes from where it may.

<fiddling with espresso machine>

Latte anyone?

<cursing espresso machine>

Coffee americano?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:48 PM EDT 7/14/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Oh, well, that's different. (No, I'll stick with water for the moment...)

I haven't looked at the full range of WJ fora. Is the level of traffic and actual conversation lower than you/we would like? If so...

Well, hmm, if I was part of the WJ group I might have a few suggestions (for example, the current software makes it a little clumsy to follow a conversation), but I think you're right--but perhaps incomplete. You need pump-primers, but you need committed conversationalists.

And, I guess, you need to cope with natural peaks and valleys in any conversational medium. I'm thinking of a newish list that started out OK, got very intense and multithreaded, and--for no apparent reason--has dropped back to light and somewhat unfocused activity.

Maybe it's the phase of the moon.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:15 PM EDT 7/14/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Could be.

I think it's important to model behavior and post, post, post. I had a gig a few years ago starting local online communities ... we always made sure to have a few "ringers" to stoke the conversational fires. Alas, the world wasn't ready (though maybe the one in Palo Alto is still going).

But, that said, you're right: an ongoing space needs to have a lot of committed people. It also has to be welcoming ... hosting is critical.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:04 PM EDT 7/14/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
I didn't know you had an espresso machine! Is that a new feature at St. Jerry's? How's your skill at making a "bone dry" cappuccino? An expertly crafted "dry cap" is so light, it doesn't make a sound when set on the counter. I think it helps to visualize clouds as you're steaming the milk. ;)

Online conversations --that's an entangled topic. I can't wait to read the Cites&Insights analysis. I haven't been able to determine any patterns in blog commenting either. There's a certain element of wanting to be seen in the company of the blogging stars, but that doesn't account for lack of comment on some of the most popular blogs. It seems to be more issue-based. Certain hot-button topics generate lots of response when it's something that is on the minds of many. K. Schneider's [url /forums/thread.jspa?threadID=4022&tstart=0 ]OPACS suck[/url] posts are an example.

I'd like to believe that lists and message boards are the superior venue for conversation, but I don't think that's always the case. Lists are a very stilted kind of conversation --hard to follow the call-and-response threads. Forums vary widely. On WJ, the longest threads (like this one) are deliberately social and less question-and-answer focused. Some other longish conversations are on 'hot' topics, like [url /forums/thread.jspa?threadID=708&start=0&tstart=0 ]Who Wants to Be a Librarian?[/url] Is it that we in the library field crave self-examination?

Yes, the threads are a bit hard to navigate on WJ. Actually, you do have the option to look at the posts in [url /do/DisplayContent?id=8444#panel ]threaded view[/url], but I don't recommend it for loooong threads like this one. And, speaking of lots of committed people, we are looking for more WJ members to serve as hosts for various forums (ok, fora) on topics about which they are excited or passionate. Passion makes the best kind of involvement, IMHO. emoticon
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:33 PM EDT 7/14/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Hmm. I won't guarantee that there will be any real discussion of "what makes for high conversational intensity"? It's an idea--but I'm also wondering whether I have the stamina and time to do the basic tests on 282 blogs, or whether I need to trim that to a more manageable set. (And I won't be looking at the hundred-or-so most "popular" librarian blogs, by design...)

[Unless you're a really skilled economics/social science-type "statistician," there are lots of cases where looking for correlations won't yield them. I asked bloggers to send me average visits per day and unique IP addresses for May 2006, to see whether either of those would correlate with any externally-available "reach" figures. So far, of the dozen or so responses I've received, there's a pretty clear answer: No.

I don't claim that lists or fora are ideal conversational areas either. I don't think they are; I do claim they have advantages over blogs, in some cases, for some users, at some times. Just as blogs have advantages over other means, in some cases, for some users, at some times. There is no ideal answer for all situations, including F2F.

(Funny thing, I wrote an essay about this very topic, "The dangling conversation," available here: http://cites.boisestate.edu/v5i4b.htm )

As for reading modes: Before I swore off /. for good, I became so frustrated with the threaded "conversations" I could scream--and I've got LISNews set so that comments appear flat, not threaded. In WJ's case, I was thinking of something like a cookie that would take you either to the first comment you haven't yet read in a forum, or to the last "page" of comments, whichever comes first (so that you get some context), rather than always taking you to the start. Otherwise, I'm down with the chronological sequence--and I think that part of good blog comment systems works just fine.

Whatever the medium, commitment, interest--which may or may not be passion--and openness to other viewpoints are all vital. There may be a conflict between openness and passion; I know there is sometimes, but I'd hope it's not a fundamental conflict.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:52 PM EDT 7/14/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Great article on the "dangling conversation" --do you mind if I quote you, Walt?

"There’s room for all these tools—and more that I don’t know about yet."

One of the fascinations for me of all of the virtual social networking tools now in use is the explosive acceptance of them --all of them. It's as if an enormous pent-up human desire to communicate was given multiple valves through which to vent. I'm in total agreement with your "and, not or" leanings. People use the communication tools that are most comfortable and workable for them. [url http://emailuniverse.com/ezine-tips/?22-Reasons-Why-Email-Is-Not-Dead&id=1060 ]Email is still not dead[/url]; [url http://walt.lishost.org/?p=57 ]lists are still not dead[/url]; forums, blogs, IM, LiveJournal, and the host of social networking outlets are all conversations in their own way. I'm ever curious to see what the next cool communication tool will be and how people will adopt it.

As for WJ, there are some [url /do/DisplayContent?id=8444#nav ]quirks to the navigation[/url]. It could indeed be more user-friendly, like placing the most recent post at the top of the thread. I keep asking and hoping for some tech fixes.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:31 PM EDT 7/14/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Are all of the social networking tools actually succeeding in the medium- to long run? That's an honest question; I'm not a big user (at least not yet).

For example, I was on Orkut at one point and saw nothing to keep me there (hey, I'm happily married, what can I say?), and despite its Google ownership, I haven't heard much of anything about Orkut in the last year or so. My sense is that a fair number of social networking and related tools have just sat there, while some have blossomed and kept blossoming. But, again, I'm no expert in the area.

Otherwise, no disagreement here. Old tools either fade slowly or keep growing. New tools keep popping up, and it's hard to predict from where and what sort of tools they'll be.

Heck, I was just reading a piece in the Chronicle of Higher Education (June 30) about mapping online interactions--and one of the examples is Netscan, Microsoft's mapping of threads on Usenet. So even Usenet's still around...

And, since it's Friday, I should mention that there's still a little part of me that wishes we'd carried through the notion of titling a certain book "And, Not Or." It would have been an interesting test case for OPAC searching, particularly in catalogs that are clever about Boolean or that have stopwords...
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
10:29 PM EDT 7/14/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
There are lots of tools ... I tend to think most, really, are task oriented rather than "purely" social. Del.icio.us comes to mind ... if you don't have a purpose for tagging posts then you've got to use someone else's scheme, so what was the point?

And the purely social ones, like MySpace, would be hard to adapt for work.

(Oh yes ... the espresso machine has been there since I opened the door. Darn thing broke, though, so I've got to get it fixed.)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:45 PM EDT 7/17/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I'm a little slow in responding. Registering for two new domains, making sure the directory's been set up properly at the host, replicating 5.5 years of an e-journal at the new site, putting in a "moved!" index page at the old site...and, belatedly, finding out that smart quotes and the like aren't showing up right, scratching my head, having a reader clue me in as to the likely cause (the old site was a Windows server; the new one's Apache, aren't we all...), finding out enough to use the reader's tip, making sure it works... Oh, and trying to make some headway at home in getting a look at liblogs going... Somehow, SJVS slipped through the cracks.

There are indeed lots of tools. Some come, some go, some stay. Makes life interesting.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:53 PM EDT 7/17/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
You're one busy person, Walt.

I suppose I am, in a way, but it would be hard to point to. The library staff members here are wonderful ... mostly, I just break the occasional tie. :-) I spend my time trying to learn, anticipate, what the public will be wanting and hoping to make this a nice place to work.

Meantime ... the espresso machine is fixed!!!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:13 PM EDT 7/17/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Not so much; not usually; this weekend was just...strange. The "your smart quotes all show up as question marks or black diamonds" bit was the icing...particularly since "But it's exactly the same file" was the truth--but not, as it turned out, the whole truth. Now that's resolved, things will get back to 'normal.'

I'm still adjusting to a return to full-time work, having been at 30 hours since last September. (New employer, new hours...same desk) My internal rhythms are off...

Which is why only virtual caffeine works after my morning Kauai. More would completely throw me off. Fortunately, there's herbal tea (Stash blueberry...)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:23 PM EDT 7/17/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
I spend too much time cursing the over-friendliness of MS word. I've been bitten by smart quotes before.

I think it's time for my afternoon bone dry cappuccino. Are you and the espresso machine up for it?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:29 PM EDT 7/17/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
How's this?

Not that I'm very good with the thing ... hard to get the cap big enough.

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:41 PM EDT 7/17/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Beautifull! And I can tell by looking at it that it's light as a feather. You (or St. Jerry) must have studied under the Monks of Cappucin.

I was going to reply to myself since I'm working too fast and hit the post button prematurely. I'd love to slow down to a 30-hour week. It sounds like my cup o' tea --at full-time pay, of course!

I just learned about yet another social networking tool called [url http://bluedot.us/friends/dots ]Blue Dot[/url]. It's a "free service that helps you find, save, and share web content with friends and family." As the demo says, "dotting is more than just bookmarking." It's a Seattle startup and is brand spanking new. We'll see how far this one goes.

According to this [url http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/venture/276014_vc30.html ]article in a local paper[/url], it's all about "social discovery" enabling members to "tap the knowledge of their friends or family." If it's more of a family affair, maybe it will avoid some of the pitfalls of MySpace, but maybe not.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:47 PM EDT 7/17/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I guess we'll see ... it must be a truly remarkable family that wants to share *everything.* ;-)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:17 PM EDT 7/18/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I realized I'm remiss ... had to make sure we had some Stash blueberry *somewhere* in house.

* * *

Added a bit later ...

Speaking of new social sites, it seems that Walmart is getting into the act: http://adage.com/article?article_id=110520

Rather clumsily, perhaps, but getting there nonetheless.

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:59 PM EDT 7/18/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
OMG, it's fake community!

I guess the WalMart execs haven't read the Cluetrain Manifesto.

Beware of all the faux conversation generated by top-down marketing efforts. I just read this in [url http://www.harpers.org/HarpersIndex2006-06.html ]Harper's Index[/url]:

"Estimated number of fake blogs created every day by websites to improve their rankings in search-engine results: 6,750"

every day!!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:11 PM EDT 7/18/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Let's see. I just deleted 195 spamments, most of them "trackbacks," all within the last 16 hours. Almost all of those are from "SEO blogs." That's on a low-traffic blog like Walt at Random.

Do I believe 6,750 fake blogs every day? You bet I do.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:04 PM EDT 7/19/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Yep. There are thousands of web site designers/managers trying to increase their rankings.

I really do think the web has finally grown beyond the capacity of automated search engines to discriminate "best" (or even useful) sites ... now if we can only put the Librarian's Internet Index to the fore and get busy classing the local stuff.

OK ... I'm a dreamer.

Coffee???
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:29 PM EDT 7/19/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Ah, another heretic. I won't comment on LII, but I do know that I'm finding the Big 4 web search engines less and less satisfactory as their databases grow ever larger. For easy stuff, sure--but for lots of searches, I have to plow pretty deep to get past the junk. (Actually, that's not fair to Ask: I haven't used it as often, recently, as the Big 3.) I suspect that the interaction of ever more spam sites and link farms, and ever more tweaks by GooYaMsAsk to defeat the cleverness, has the effect of munging up overall results. Or maybe I'm just picky.

Then there are the mysteries of which chunk of open web is being covered, and how the "relevance" algorithms (yes, those are scare quotes, deliberately) actually work. I got into a minor kerfuffle on my blog because of a year-old truly off-topic post, one that (deservedly) isn't in the first hundred results for a particular search in Google or Yahoo!--but that shows up fairly prominently at MSN/Windows Live. Go figure.

Thanks; I'll stick with herbal tea. Ever the wimp...
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
7:53 PM EDT 7/20/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
One herbal tea, coming up!

I've been building a local web directory for the past couple of years ... and it's a real problem when I have to go 500+ into Google, etc., to find anything new to the area. In part, it's a web design issue (but leading people to design is much like leading a horse to water). In part, it's a "weighing issue" (I don't much care what's most popular). In part it's a marketing issue ... for all of the many kind souls who've decided thay can expand their markets if they add the names of all the towns they've never dreamed of serving to their sites. :-(

Yeah, I'm another heretic.

But that's not to say that I think directories are better than search engines ... merely different. It's just that search engines are running into a power-law (the number of interconnections for X being X! and X growing exponentially). There's just so much the poor user can absorb!

Oh, on a related note, here's a Google take on problems with the semantic web:

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chrystiehill

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:18 PM EDT 7/19/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
500+? I've given up on finding new items in some areas because of the 1,000-or-less limit (and because "date" algorithms are largely useless for web pages, too many of which seem to auto-update every single day).

Directories vs. search engines: Yet another and-not-or case, as you say. And if a directory got too big...

The zdnet link times out for me, but I'll offer a true, if irrelevant, anecdote: A few years ago, I spoke during a program in which the other speaker was Tim Berners-Lee. We chatted before the program. I've never been smart enough to be properly in awe of my superiors, so I offered my opinion of the Semantic Web, both as a rhetoric major in college and as one who believes most people won't put extra effort into invisible stuff in their web work. Which was, basically, that as a general proposition it just wouldn't work. I continue to believe that...which doesn't mean it might not work within specific niches.

Here's a zen moment for hump day: Step one in personal web enlightenment is doing your first ego search and marveling at the possibilities. Step two is finding that ego searches are no longer worthwhile because you can't see most of the results or find anything new in them. The ego, having risen, dissipates into the internet cloud...
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:33 PM EDT 7/19/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
I'm saddled with a common name ... or perhaps freed by it. An ego search on "Bob Watson" brings up a *lot* of baseball stories. :-)

On the other hand, I've been using "librarybob" for over a decade as my usual username. Thanks to WJ there's something over 28K hits on Google ... and I'm not really active here compared to a passworded community. Anything at WJ gets picked up and repeated to the point, I'm sure, of irrelevance.

It dissipates in a cloud, as you nicely put it.

I quite agree, btw, with the semantic web. I rather think public libraries would do well to offer "web site review" to the local public ... Dublin Core and a bit 'o subject specification might do wonders for the web.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
8:00 PM EDT 7/20/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
hi. i'm lurking. too busy dealing with lemons. be back later...
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
8:20 AM EDT 7/21/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Hi Chrystie!

Interested in coffee this morning?
Re:vealing post
2:57 PM EDT 7/22/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Chrystie, doesn't posting the fact that you're lurking sort of mean that you aren't?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:46 PM EDT 7/27/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
By the way, nice essay Chrystie.

I agree ... it's a question of balance.

One of the "ongoing problems" of the world is that such balance is different to different people. Kids adopt useful (to them) tech so quickly that they soon create a "new world" that's foreign to we ancients.

That's also, I think, true of words and maybe even attitudes.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:28 PM EDT 8/2/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
<Wiping counter>

Hmmm. Maybe time to add a bone to the soup.

</wiping>

Here's an interesting link on data mining: http://www.applefritter.com/bannedbooks

In part:

"Amazon wishlists lets anyone bookmark books for later purchase. By default these lists are public and available to anybody who searches by name. If the wishlist creator specifies a shipping address, someone else can even purchase the book on Amazon and have it shipped directly as a gift. The wishlist creator's city and state are made public on the wishlist, but the street address remains private. Amazon's popularity has created a vast database of wishlists. No index of all wishlists is available, but it remains possible to view all wishlists by people of a particular first name. A recent search for people named Mark returned 124,887 publicly viewable wishlists.

For an all inclusive search by name, you could compile a comprehensive list of first names and nicknames from the baby names databases available on the internet. Armed with this list, and by recording the search results for each first name, it is possible for you to retrieve the vast majority of public wishlists on Amazon."

Now that's an eye-opener.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:56 PM EDT 8/2/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Mmmmm, I can smell something good cooking. Is it one of St. Paula's recipes?

And I thought [url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mashup_%28web_application_hybrid%29 ]mashups[/url] were all warm and fuzzy. :>

The issue of privacy or perceived privacy rears up again. It seems that we've conceded it in the age of electronic information. Once our personal data is encoded in 1s and 0s, it's subject to all kinds of [url http://www.wired.com/news/politics/conflict/0,64492-0.html ]manipulation[/url].

Will this dampen enthusiasm for personalization and interactivity on the Web? I doubt it. My impression is that younger generations don't care or at least don't think about loss of privacy. Is it a good idea for libraries to get into the personalization game? The mere act of storing patron records electronically makes them [url http://www.libraryjournal.com/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA245044 ]vulnerable[/url] anyway, so why not use the data to offer a more customized experience to patrons?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:31 PM EDT 8/2/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Getting a little warm around here...
<p>
[soapbox]
<p>
Librarians should care about patron privacy to a greater extent than patrons, at least without sufficient information, do. The possible fact (not well tested) that Kids These Days are even less aware of privacy issues than various Old Farts does not negate this.
<p>
Storing current circulation records online is necessary. Maintaining the link between borrower and item once the item has been returned shouldn't be, and is a pretty direct invitation to various parties to come calling. The FBI has done it before, with or without warrants or the Patriot Act: That's one reason most states how have library-record confidentiality statutes. The FBI and others will do it again, and basically ignore state statutes...
<p>
If "customization" can only work by storing such links, I think librarians need to think long and hard about just how much the customization is worth, and whether it's a price worth paying.
<p>
The issue isn't just "who cares what I took out?" It's data mining and inference.
<p>
I discussed this in a small portion of <a href="http://citesandinsights.info/v6i9b.htm">a long essay</a>. Here's the small portion, and I'll stand by the plausibility of this scenario:
<p>
------------------------------------------------
<blockquote>
Here’s the scenario: You’re a wholesome patriotic American with a tween daughter. Years ago, you checked out Lolita because you heard what great literature it was. (If you’re like me, you didn’t make it very far into the book; sorry, but I was creeped out.) More recently, you were at the library with your daughter, who had forgotten her library card and had some relevant books to check out—learning about herself, understanding her changing body, reading literature that interested her. So you check the books out on your card. Of course you didn’t opt out from the library’s wonderful “Books you’ll like!” system—after all, isn’t it great at Amazon?
<p>
Some level of government decides to do a new push on child molesters. Next thing you know, there’s a knock on your door—or you’re subpoenaed to appear before a grand jury, or you’re named in a newspaper article on suspicious characters, or you’re just brought up On Suspicion. Why? Well, when you compare your profile of reading habits with those of known or suspected pedophiles and apply some deep datamining and correlation techniques…
<p>
But that’s guilt by association! Surely nothing like that would ever happen!
<p>
Seen Good Night and Good Luck? Read anything about HUAC, the Hollywood blacklist, the careers destroyed through guilt by association?
</blockquote>

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[/soapbox]
<p>
Far-fetched? Not really.
<p>
Now: Are there ways to provide a reasonably customized experience without storing past patron:item links? I believe there are--but they require innovative thinking.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
7:42 PM EDT 8/2/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Walt, I'm glad you brought in your soapbox. I'm definitely in the "various Old Farts" category and find your scenario entirely believable. When I was doing a collection development project in library school and was looking primarily for books on Islam and Judaism, I was amused by the recommendations Amazon would make based on my searches. Amused, until I realized the more sinister implications of the profile being formulated about me.

The results of [url http://www.choicestream.com/pdf/cs_press_050815.pdf ]this survey[/url] indicate that people are conflicted on the topic:

"According to a recent national survey, the vast majority of consumers want an online experience that is highly personalized. However, 63 percent of those same consumers are concerned that their personal data might not be secure with personalization."

I found this post on [url http://cogdogblog.com/2006/03/21/trying-doing-the-right-thing/ ](Trying) Doing The Right Thing[/url] to be an illuminating example of the disconnect that some people seem to have about the sacrifice of privacy through online exposure.

The challenge is to balance the urge to "give the patrons what they want" with the mandate to protect their privacy. I like the idea that innovative thinking can address the problem. Can a profile be detached from personal data and still be useful? I'm not feeling imaginative enough myself to come up with anything. Maybe I need a bowl of that soup our bartender is cooking.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
8:17 PM EDT 8/2/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
such as: opt-in?
or: anonymous authentication (based on cash or some other deposit)?
or: davincicode type account numbers + secret key?

---------------------

regardless the solution, online library users want self-service and they want personalized, convenient services, and they want them yesterday. when the library's not around anymore to grapple with the "privacy v. personalization" issue because we're not relevant to people who make decisions or have influence, you can bet that Amazon (and others) will be laughing all the way to the bank. i guess what i'm saying is that privacy is not an excuse for avoiding personalized web service from the library - we have to figure this out. another thing: people should be in charge of their own privacy. *maybe* it is our role to educate patrons, but is it our job to "protect" them (esp at their own and our expense)?

[personal wishlist story, currently unrelated to ideas above, i think]

several months ago i was at dinner with friends, many mourning the end of "personalized gift giving" due to the advent of such "wishlists". I mentioned that my extended family had started using them for holiday gift giving and we'd never had more fun! my step-dad's wishlist turned up with a fantastic wish list, things i never would have imagined he'd want, and I spent a delightful day sorting through used book stores finding his titles - his enormous stack of used books on christmas day (almost *everything* on his list) delighted him even more. then i mentioned these shoes that i didn't know my sister wanted. i bought them for her (right off the wishlist) and she brags about them all over town. in fact, she had bragged about them to someone at the dinner party and when that came out, suddenly the sentiment changed. if someone could be that happy with a gift that they'd picked out for themselves, maybe they're not such a bad thing after all. guess what? my next birthday, everyone at that table had found my wishlist on amazon and purchased a cookbook from it! i received a wonderful, coordinated gift-giving extravaganza, and we were all delighted by it!

none of this freaks me out. it makes me feel connected (rather than disconnected), even to people I see on a regular basis in physical space. i'm not even sure that i'd be willing to give this stuff up knowing full well the risk of nefarious use of my personal info by various first, second, third, fourth, or fifth parties. i'm not sure if it's because i'm one of those Kids These Days, feeling immortal and all that, or if I'm truly, and simply, willing to take the risk in order to have more personalized & enriched commercial service, esp. *because it's now linked to my personal, social interactions*.

[/personal story, trying to figure out if it relates to my expectations of libraries]
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
10:08 PM EDT 8/2/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
I seem to remember having much this same discussion with Karen Coyle. We both agreed that there probably are technological solutions that wouldn't be too cumbersome for those patrons who really wanted personalized recommendations.

I'm just really nervous about making it too easy for people to opt in without awareness of the consequences. Yes, I guess I do think librarians have an educational role here.

Chrystie: I'm not sure wishlists fall into the same category. With a wishlist, you're explicitly saying "I'm semi-publicly declaring that I want these things." The partial break with privacy is inherently explicit: A wishlist doesn't do much good if nobody else can see it.

This stuff is hard. But hey, that's why they pay librarians the big bucks, right? (And I still don't do emoticons...)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
8:50 AM EDT 8/3/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
I tend to think librarians who haven't been through either 1) the Vietnam era or 2) the McCarthy period have a tendency to minimize the problem ... despite what the current incumbent is doing "in the name of patriotism" to invade private lives. Nevermind what local groups ... such as the John Birch Society once upon a time ... might do.

I'm with Walt on purging circ records (and wiping the drives!) but that seems to be beyond what vendors generally provide. :-(

At the same time ... we librarians are also responsible members of the larger society and shouldn't hesitate to inform the police if there's a real concern about someone's actions. A person who's interloaning stuff on "how to make a bomb" *may* only be doing research, but he may also be a nutcase who bears watching.

IMO, of course. It's a big issue for librarianship ... are we "responsible" to society (in toto) in the same way that we are responsive to the individuals who comprise that society? I think that when there is a "clear and present danger" the answer must be yes ... we cannot hide our heads in the sand and expect tax support.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:39 PM EDT 8/3/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
hey walt: emoticons are fun emoticon
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:52 PM EDT 8/3/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
I don't doubt it. (And I don't prevent emoticons in comments on my weblog, noting that WordPress converts text to emoticons just as nicely as this forum does.)

I just don't use them. What can I say? I'm not a terribly visual person.

....sitting here running the customer report that doesn't like to run itself (long and unimportant story), having dealt with a singular situation in looking at liblogs: One relatively new blog with an Impressive! Number! of Comments! (more than 1,200 on one particular post)...which, unfortunately, turn out to be a case of not trapping spam. And I used to question the validity of those Spam Karma 2 numbers at the foot of other blogs...no more! [The post in question had 8 legitimate comments...]
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:44 PM EDT 8/8/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
I've always used them. My humor can be awfully dry ... so I've got to give something more than a hint.

It's one of those areas where technology intrudes. It's also why it's *hard* to write some types of things.

IMHO anyway.

<wiping counter>

Let's see ... coffee anyone?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:18 PM EDT 8/11/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I used to be an emoticon resistor, but you'd hardly know it now. ;)

They are useful for adding the missing expressive element to this odd form of textual conversation that is now part of our lives. You're right that dry humor is hard to convey in this format and it sometimes needs a nudge, nudge, ;), ;). Or how else can I let someone know that a comment made me emoticon or made me extra emoticon?

The problem is not enough emoticons. I find myself wanting one for "somewhat befuddled frustration" or "looking slightly askance" or "disappointed but not so pouty-sad as to be emoticon". Actually, it's a good thing that real live facial expression is still such a full and satisfying form of human communication. I'm not overly eager for a completely electronic alternative. We do still have an incredibly rich language to work with.

I also think that the smile emoticon is not quite as superficial as a [url http://www.cartoonstock.com/directory/h/have_a_nice_day.asp ]smiley face[/url]. One of my favorite cartoons shows a group of cavemen sitting around the fire. One of them has a smiley face instead of regular facial features. The caption reads "First man to have a nice day."
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:32 PM EDT 8/18/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Did I scare everyone away with an over-abundance of emoticons?
<restraining myself from putting in a wink here.>

Returning to an old tradtion here at St. Jerry's, I think I'll share a quotation:

"is BlogJunction an official blog?"
(from the [url http://citesandinsights.info/civ6i10.pdf ]August issue[/url] of Cites & Insights)

Good question. We're right on the fence, sometimes more "official" than other times. There's no denying that [url http://blog.webjunctionworks.org/index.php ]BlogJunction[/url] is identified with the WebJunction organization. I like to think that our contributors think and write beyond the boundaries of the organization. Is [url http://scanblog.blogspot.com/ ]It's all good[/url] an official blog?

I'm intrigued by all the blogs that Walt identified as conversational. I intend to start following some of them to see what they're doing that we are not. Comments are few and far between on our blog.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:54 PM EDT 8/18/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
You've made the same comparison I was going to make. Last year, I decided that It's All Good is not an official blog. Ditto hangingtogether. I would conclude the same this year (but both are way out of this year's scope). I came down on the same side for BlogJunction. It's not a clearcut distinction. Maybe it's not a useful distinction. It's really a matter of voice, and I didn't deal with voice much this year.

If you want to look at conversational issues, I'd set the bar much higher than I did in the article, starting at those that average at least one comment per post. If you draw useful conclusions, I'd be interested. Better yet, if you can come up with useful conclusions about the high-comment individual posts, I'd be interested.

Look at last year's article as well; blogs that were very conversational last year usually are this year, and a few of the very widely-read blogs are also strongly conversational.

I will openly admit that I am proud that Walt at Random has 354 posts and 1,146 comments, a ratio of 3.2:1. And that I am wholly bemused by which posts draw no comments and which suddenly turn into comment-a-thons.

Other than deliberately provocative comments (and I never make deliberately provocative comments...), I have no idea what triggers comments. [Note: Of course some of those comments are my own responses to other people, but that's never even half of the comments, and it's true on every blog. A conversation isn't a conversation if the person who started it doesn't continue.]

There's one real easy way to get lots of comments, for a blog that gets at least (say) 50 readers a day. Turn off moderation, turn off spam filters, turn off Spam Karma 2, turn off Capcha. But you really don't want to go there!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:18 PM EDT 8/18/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Oh, we get our share of those kind of comments. :> (smirky emoticon)

I just started my informal research on conversation in blogs by looking at [url http://larocqueandroll.blogspot.com/ ]Larocque and Roll[/url] (I was intrigued by the tag line) and Walt at Random. My initial, superficial observations are:

--Larocque and Roll seems to have a lot of friends who are comfortable in online interaction in the form or light banter.
--blogging with a personal, even confessional, voice may help to elicit the same from readers.
--Walt, you ask questions, thereby openly inviting response. My hunch is that this is rare in blog posts.
--High visibility in the library world has to be a contributing factor: it attracts other thinkers of like stature and readers who want to be associated with fame.

I was mystified by this comment on your [url http://walt.lishost.org/?p=357 ]August 9th[/url] post:
"This is a blog, not an open-ended discussion group. I welcome conversation, but within the rules of a blog. Don\’t like them? Go play somewhere else."

Rules of a blog?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:12 PM EDT 8/18/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
And yet, some of the most highly conversational posts didn't have questions--and I can ask a question and hear nothing but crickets chirping. The post you cite is a good example: It was just an announcement--and there are 16 comments so far. (OK, I did ask a question partway through the conversation, but that was six comments deep.)

I do believe that blogging with a distinctive voice helps. My voice is rarely confessional (the way some bloggers are; I'm just too shy for that stuff) but it's, well, my voice, and apparently unmistakable at that.

Now, as to that mystifying comment. The rules of a blog in this case: The blogger produces a post. Comments spring from that post and should be at least indirectly related to either the post or the previous comment. Comments about the price of grits in Des Moines really don't belong on a post about the difficulties of marketing a rural library in North Dakota. I think it would probably be unreasonable for me to add a comment about my favorite Mountain View restaurant to a typical BlogJunction post, particularly one that had nothing to do with either Silicon Valley or food. (That might work just fine here at St. Jerry's, but this isn't a blog.)

A blog is not an open-ended discussion group, at least not in most cases. [No, I don't think of LISNews as a blog.] It may be useful to note the context of that comment: It replaces an entirely off-topic comment (which was, actually, saying I should be doing a list instead of a blog so that it *would* be open-ended discussion). I don't replace or delete comments very often, and never for civil disagreement (one sure way to reduce comments!).

OK, you've got two bases for conversational intensity. A good start! I could see an article or column growing out of this (your article, of course, not mine).
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
9:45 PM EDT 8/18/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Nice discussion.

In my view, and if I can extend a much-used metaphor ... blogs are somehow settlers in the wild, wild west of the web. Discussion fora and lists are more like temporary caravansarae or, intentionally, the occasional fort that excludes (and defines) if it is to exist for more than a temporary "now."

Sorta, anyway.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:46 PM EDT 9/15/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Not much activity lately ... summer doldrums no doubt.

Here's something we're going to do at my library: all adult services staff will have business cards and will be encouraged to pass them out, especially to those patrons who may need additional help. We're getting a rack that will hold 12 cards.

In my view, we *need* to do this to establish our professionalism, our "information cred" as it were. All other professions do this, except maybe teachers.

It also allows us to refer people to those on staff who may have a particular specialty ... such as with Janet and homeschooling.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:16 PM EDT 9/18/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Doldrums? summer vacation is more like it! San Juan Islands --emoticon

I'm a little surprised that the adult services staff are only now getting business cards, which are so automatically issued at any level of employment with even a hint of professionalism --"sales associates" at Home Depot come to mind.

But then, I'm also aware of a general caution about library staff divulging their contact info to the public for fear of harrassment. Is this old school? As recently as two years ago, I took a virtual reference class in which we were advised to use a pseudonym online so as not to reveal our names.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:16 PM EDT 9/19/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Hard to say ... when I posted to PubLib there was no one saying that they've done this for years. It seems to be the status quo at most places.

(I'd love to hear that I'm wrong, by the way.)

There was some, uh, consternation at my own library when I decided we'd be doing this. Mostly, this is fear of change. Some is a legitimate fear of crazies.

The thing is, from my POV, if we're not willing to put our name behind our recommendations then our quest for "professional recognition" by other professions is doomed.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:04 PM EDT 9/19/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I just found this quotation from Marylaine Block in a [url http://marylaine.com/exlibris/xlib143.html ]2002 essay[/url]:

"We might even bring our library staff out of the shadows of professional anonymity and introduce them on our web pages and library newsletters as living breathing people with specific educational backgrounds and hobbies and special knowledge areas."

I see many library workers [url http://flickr.com/groups/librariancards/pool/ ]rejecting "professional anonymity"[/url] in the online environment, so why not take it to the stacks? Is the fear of crazies more substantial in the physical library? Anyone who really wants to find out personal information can do so in this databased world.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
7:40 PM EDT 9/19/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I think that's part of it. Part of it, I'm sure, is a lack of confidence in our answers to people ... though why this should be I'm not sure.

By the way, we hope to have blogs for all professional staff ... "outing" them rather more, you might say. ;-)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:31 PM EDT 9/20/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
By the way ... I'm glad you had fun in the San Juan's. All of my relatives are in Washington, as are my wife's, so we get to Sea-Tac and Mt. Rainier every so often.

But I've never made it to the San Juan Islands. :-(

We've recently been speculating about retiring to Sequim.

<wiping bar>

Coffee anyone?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:24 PM EDT 9/22/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I recommend getting to the San Juans on your next trip out here. The islands are rocky and lichen-covered and full of Madrone trees clinging dramatically to steep cliff faces. It's quite different from the mainland landscape. I'm terrible about taking pictures, but fortunately others are [url http://www.flickr.com/map?woe_id=12485687 ]better at it[/url].

Individual blogs for all staff? Are they blogging to their patrons? I'll be interested to hear what reactions you get --probably some enthusiasm and some resistance.

I'd love a cup of coffee --St. Jerry's is always the best!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:04 PM EDT 9/22/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Not yet, Betha. We're contemplating a complete new website overhaul ... maybe 20K to do it right (and own the code).

We'll likely have several blogs, with the intent being to demonstrate that staff are 1) alive and 2) intelligent. :-)

There's a wiki to be built, our own internal conferences to be maintained, calendars, scheduling software, and a lot of automatic linking/verifying to be done on our feed to the consortium. A lot of that needs to be accessed remotely by non-staff (such as organizations looking for volunteers).

The ongoing maintenance we'll likely need is driving this.

Hmmm.

I'll see if I remember. You prefer it black?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:20 PM EDT 9/25/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Monday morning: that cup of coffee still sounds good. Yes, black, thx. emoticon

It sounds like your library is going [url http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22library+2.0%22&btnG=Google+Search ]2.0[/url] in a big way! There is a good summary of what that means in the July/August issue of [url http://www.techsource.ala.org/ltr/web-20-and-libraries-best-practices-for-social-software.html ]Library Technology Reports[/url]. The chapter on blogs discusses a variety of uses in libraries and how to implement them. Not surprising that staff buy-in is sometimes challenging, but oh so important. Keep us tuned to how it goes for you.

The confusion of having too many communication venues is a by-product of all this innovation with social software tools. Even for internal business, information can get scattered in a hurry when there are too many choices and not enough guidelines or training. It's also tough to bridge the need for participation from external partners and selective internal privacy. Oh, what a tangled Web we weave.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
9:45 AM EDT 9/26/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I think a "tangled web" is why there'll always be librarians. ;-)

Here's an interesting datapoint: we've been having some difficulty of late getting our news releases and such into local newspapers. They seem to have been contracting staff ... it's been ages since I was contacted by a reporter and I used to get a call every couple of weeks from *someone.*

Our PR person did a bit of scouting around and thinks this is because the newspapers are now relying upon RSS feeds to passively acquire news. This pretty much means that having a blog becomes a requirement!

I can't say that 2.0 is my motivation ... but it *is* a technical answer to the need for what I'd call "professionalization in the information age."

I'd note, however, that in my view the "information age" began in the late 19th century. It's just taken us a while to figure out that reference librarians handle information rather more often than they dispense books (with all apologies to those readers' advisors who may do rather more of the latter).

Attachments: coffee_cup_2.jpg (1.5k)   
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:49 PM EDT 9/27/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Thanks for the steaming hot cup o' java!

As was stated quite succinctly in [url /forums/message.jspa?messageID=32983&tstart=0 ]another topic[/url], "Web 2.0's central focus is user participation."

I would say that a major adjustment for many librarians is less about better management of information and much more about allowing patrons greater participation in the management of information most relevant to them. I agree that library staff are important for untangling the Web. But there's a shift from being the information authority to being the companion in a patron's journey along an information-seeking path.

Im curious about the press release problem. My cycnical side says it must be related to the conglomeration of the news media. There's a lot of down-sizing going on at newspaper offices, so fewer reporters with the time to come knocking on your door. If RSS from a blog helps the situation, that's great.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:56 PM EDT 9/27/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Hmmm. Outside of a few special libraries I don't think librarians have *ever* successfully positioned themselves as "information authorities." Most of the time, we've been "book gatekeepers" rather than "knowledge gatekeepers."

(Cue Jesse Shera here and the formation of the Special Library Association.)

I think your cynical side and mine are alligned ... I quite agree it's due to downsizing the "news acquisition" side of the newspaper business. ;-)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:57 PM EDT 9/27/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Okay, point taken. However, a gatekeeper is defined as "a person who controls access" (Webster online). It's the upending of control that is challenging to many library staff. Library 2.0 relinquishes a lot of control over information flow and access to the patrons. In the new world of library blogs open to patron entries/comments, the readers get to pick the book recommendations and write the reviews.

I had to look up [url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Shera ]Jesse Shera[/url]. :> He was a prolific writer! The Wikipedia entry has this to say about him:
"Late in his career he came to believe that the "human side" of librarianship and information work in general faced a danger of being overshadowed by attention to technical matters as the information explosion of the 1980s began to take shape."

Very interesting!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
10:26 AM EDT 9/28/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
To my way of thinking, it's because the issue of "alligning" user needs with available information is so important ... people tend to accept what's in accord with their pre-conceived notions rather than what might be objectively seen as "true" or "useful."

You can hang any number of conspiracy theories on that. Also the "new" phenomena of student (and others!) accepting the first semi-plausible thing that pops up in a google search.

That's of course also a basic "reference interview" problem.

The "documentalist" movement was (and is) important in the history of automated information access ... the critical hardware/software issues were identified. But Shera, I think, realized that this only went so far in making information available.

People tend to find what they think they're looking for ... unfortunately. ;-)

I suppose I might note that my "library heroes" are Shera, Ranganathan, and Louis Shores.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:31 PM EST 11/1/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
<wiping the counter>

Anyone want coffee?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:43 PM EST 11/1/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
<steps into the bar, blinking>Yes, I'd love a cup!

Been to [url http://www.infotoday.com/il2006/ ]Internet Librarian[/url] and back, then to our Advisory Committee meeting last week, then wading through email for the first two days back --you know how that goes.

I was going to make my little announcement in [url /forums/thread.jspa?threadID=693&tstart=0 ]Shameless Self-Promotion[/url], but the lovely aroma of fresh-brewed coffee lured me in here first. The news is that I have accepted a different position within WebJunction --I am soon to be the Curriculum Developer for the iMPACt project, an effort to define competencies and provide assessments and training for library staff to help them sustain public access computing for patrons. I'm excited to get involved at this early stage, to help structure the project and get it rolling.

This means that I'll be handing the reins of the Community Associate role over to someone new. We're in the process of identifying qualified candidates and scheduling interviews. I'll be moving slowly into my new position, continuing the community support that is so vital to our members' experience. I hope to be introducing the 'new kid' in early December.

As I assured our Moderators, I will not be going AWOL from the discussions here. This is still my professional online community of choice. I learn [url http://blog.webjunctionworks.org/?p=268 ]so much[/url] from all of our members and I love to share my discoveries in turn. Besides, I need to keep up with all the goings-on at St. Jerry's. emoticon
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:55 PM EST 11/2/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Well, well, well. :-) Here you go. <sliding coffee over>

Congratulations!

What will this involve?

For myself, my "current issue of note" is trying to decide where the library should stand on a new Tax Increment Financing (TIF) proposal in one of the villages. The law recently changed so as to minimize damage to library districts, but it's also true that the proposal doesn't meet many, if any, of the legal criteria for redevelopment funding.

That said, "scratch my back and I'll scratch yours." Keeping mayors and village boards happy keeps them from running a slate of anti-library library board candidates. The development will really change the perception of the area ... it will go "upscale" a couple of notches. That's good for the library's long-term tax income.

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:27 PM EST 11/2/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Congrats here as well. Nice to see the coffee's starting to flow again after a little inadvertent? closure.

So, just what does the Community Associate do?

[No coffee at the moment. We had Bagel Thursday earlier, and it's tisanes for the rest of the day for me. Or, if your pinkie isn't lifted over the cup, good old herbal tea as usual.]
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:32 PM EST 11/2/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Hi Walt.

Herbal tea ... coming up!

It's an odd thing ... say something and the crowd goes silent. Do you say something more or wait, and if you wait, for how long?

My professional opinions do tend to run against some imbedded assumptions. ;-)

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:02 PM EST 11/2/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Thanks for the congratulations (and the coffee)!

I have attached the official description of the Community Associate position. As you can see, it’s all about being at the core of “all community-related content, programming, and interactive tools for WebJunction.org.” ‘librarybob,’ you know what “online community-building” entails, being rather masterful at it yourself. The application deadline was yesterday and we’re about to start interviewing some prime candidates.

My new position as Curriculum Developer for our iMPACt project will allow me to get more involved with e-learning, instructional design, and online training –all quite compelling to me. I won’t be doing it full-time until the end of the year.

I had to look up [url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_increment_financing ]tax increment financing[/url] --it’s a new term to me. It sounds powerful for reviving rural areas. According to Wikipedia, Illinois has been doing it successfully for years. I’m curious about the “minimize damage to library districts” part –what was the hidden harm?

‘waltc’ how’s your own transition going? I’m thinking of going to the internal meeting about the integration of RLG & OCLC services. I hope it’s been relatively smooth for you.
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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:27 PM EST 11/2/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Looks interesting ... I hope you can find someone with the passion needed to stay online 24/7. :-)

The problem with TIF financing is this: TIFs freeze the assessed valuation of an area (as far as the taxing bodies are concerned) and use the tax money that would have been collected -- had the assessed valuation increased due to what was built -- in order to pay off construction bonds.

The theory is that the land would not have been developed otherwise ... but this isn't necessarily so. Also, a TIF can last up to 23 years (in Illinois).

The big issue is: if the TIF development includes housing, who pays for the services needed by this new population? Answer: the other taxpayers.

Luckily, Illinois law was amended this past January to buffer the impact on libraries. But the majority of the tax money won't come available until the TIF is abolished.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:04 PM EST 11/2/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
You know, I probably saw that job announcement, but things have been...hmm. I'm not sure what the right word is. Now I'm reminded. Thanks.

My own transition? Still very much in transition, another way of saying "up in the air." Some attrition around here means taking on more "keeping the wheels running" tasks, along with a variety of processes to make the migration/transition work--and some little time on possible future roles. I do believe progress is being made on all fronts. Maybe not smooth, but I don't remember the last time things were "smooth" around here!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
11:34 AM EST 11/3/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Congratulations on the new job! I was very involved with the iMPACt project last Fall and am excited to see it moving forward with you at the helm -- it is a vital project. Let me know if you need input as I always have opinions to share ;-)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:25 PM EST 11/3/06 as a reply to Janie Hermann.
Janie, that's good to know that you were involved with iMPACt. It's very likely that I'll take you up on your offer for future help. You are the most dynamic of trainers!

For everyone's edification (mine included), iMPACt comes from Managing Public Access Computing and developing a program that will hopefully have a great impact. None of us are wedded to the name, so I'm open to suggested alternatives.

Walt, I empathize with the implications behind "transition." There are suddenly transition tasks that are apart from the job-specific tasks. Juggling all is a challenge.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:32 PM EST 11/3/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Maybe time to break out a bottle and toast Betha!!!!

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Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:35 PM EST 11/3/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Now I like that!!!

And it's not even noon here yet. ;)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:28 PM EST 11/16/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I'd posted elsewhere that I think public services librarians (of all stripes) should have what I'm calling a "professional blog." I see this as a blog on the library's website that the professional can use to inform the public of what he/she learned at meetings, of programming issues, of books read, of bibliographies created, etc.

The thing is (and YMMV): library work has never been "public" but we need to have a way to insure that the taxpaying public at large knows that librarians are intelligent and competent. We have spent 100 years hiding our lights under baskets ... if we're to truly claim professionalism we need to be in the public eye.

What do the folks at St. Jerry's think?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
9:17 PM EST 11/21/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Tap tap: Anyone there? (I know: After MsDewey, I hate to even use that. I reviewed CD-ROMs using the same technique a decade ago, and it grew old there too.)

Which is by way of saying (hold the coffee), and I know this is the wrong place to say it--maybe at work tomorrow I'll find the right place:

I think the lists hosted by WebJunction are kaput.

Haven't received a single post from PUBLIB or Web4Lib this week.

And my automatic forward to both lists, announcing the Volume 6 index for Cites & Insights, resulted in failed mail in both cases: The mailboxes were apparently full.

If anyone monitoring this board is in a position to follow up, great. If not...well, I'll nudge a couple of people tomorrow. From work. (I hear Maynard G. Krebs' voice at this point, which means it's time to turn off the computer.)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
10:40 PM EST 11/21/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
thanks walt. that's weird. I'll pass it on to people who can actually do stuff to fix it.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
11:47 AM EST 11/22/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
I saw that too, Walt. I had a pub-lib post bounce back to me (on the subject above).

Coffee anyone?

I was in a focus group on Friday devoted to "best practices" but came away feeling that all the good ideas people in libraryland have aren't going to be shared as well as they might due to lack of interest in either lists or boards. I fear that the majority of librarians *want* to pull a Greta Garbo and "be alone."
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:52 PM EST 11/22/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Roy Tennant just announced that Web4Lib is back, so there's clearly a solvable problem. That's been solved for Web4Lib, not yet for Publib.

Re the last para: I hope that's not true--that is, that librarians doing good things just want to be alone--but you have recent experience, and I don't doubt the truth of it in some cases..

Maybe lists and boards don't do the trick, at least for a lot of librarians? Maybe it's necessary to harvest good ideas--some from blogs and wikis, some from active research.

Maybe there's a crucial ongoing role for library journalists of one sort or another--gathering, synthesizing, and redistributing in ejournal or even (p)book form. I've been thinking about that (and have an unfortunate tendency to want to act on those thoughts, if only time and funding allowed).

(The wiki situation is a little frustrating: It seems like librarians tend to start new ones rather than expand existing ones.)

And, yes, I don't doubt that a fair number of good ideas won't be picked up because the people who have them apply them locally, don't see that they might be applicable elsewhere, or have had drummed into them that "how we did it good" is not how The Literature should work. But it's what we need, particularly if we can extract the generally-useful ideas and take advantage of clear, if very localized, successes.

Thanks; I'll stick with water for now.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:13 PM EST 11/22/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Walt, you bring up a fourth factor:
"people ...have had drummed into them that "how we did it good" is not how The Literature should work."

Yes, it's the timidity factor and it's a major one. We hear it all the time from participants in our rural library program. Which feeds into your other suggestion about "library journalists." Whatever you call them, the online community core or the thought leaders are those who are willing to lead the way. This is true offline as well.This core of articulate spokespersons shape the discourse in librayland and allow the masses to read and absorb without feeling the need to add their voices. The burden is on the "journalists" to accurately reflect the ideas and stories of the wider group.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:37 PM EST 11/22/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Let's see ... one water, one coffee.

<placing same on counter>

That focus group is for a grant awarded to the Illinois library systems group. You'll have to forgive me on not remembering the consultants names ... I'm at home and don't have my paperwork in front of me. Since this is Illinois-centered I rather suspect there wouldn't be enough participation to keep a "best practices" site up and running ... and even if there were funds to run it I doubt there's be enough participation to make it worthwhile.

I did advocate working with WebJunction.

Following Walt, I rather think we already owe a great debt to "library journalists." On the other hand, that strikes me as a mighty thin way to run a profession.

If I may generalize a bit, I think part of what's missing is a general desire to be the local "public intellectual." This strikes me as an important role (and one growing in importance as we try to become the "ace internet users") yet one the profession as a whole seems really loathe to advocate.

Too many of us would rather just read and look informed. I'm afraid the general public has caught on to that trick and needs us to do far more if we're to continue receiving tax support.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:45 PM EST 11/22/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
A good example of someone who I think has taken on that role of the "public intellectual" - but not in a stodgy or academic sense - is Nancy Pearl (formerly at Seattle Public). She has provided an outstanding example of how readers' advisory can change lives, create community, and engage people far beyond love of reading to civic engagement. Is that the sort of role you had in mind LB?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:46 PM EST 11/22/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
The Scriptorium seems to be buzzing on ThanksWednesday...
<p>
In my mind, "library journalists" means a whole lot more than the people at <i>American Libraries</i> and <i>LJ</i>. It means me. It means Michael Stephens. It means Meredith Farkas. It means those two writing a book about libraries building communities, whoever they might be (OK, yes, ChrystieH and StevenC...)
<p>
It means every liblogger who writes up successful (and failed, please!) innovations. It means everyone who contributes to library wikis (and yes, Library Success is doing well--I'm just greedy!). Sure, it means contributors to the forums here--and to Publib, and Web4Lib, and the rest.
<p>
At a metalevel, though, it also means those who can gather items and bring some kind of organization and broader meaning to them. Sometimes that just takes paying attention (and, sigh, having the time and energy to do something with all the items). Sometimes it means further investigation, which is difficult.
<p>
(I'm about to write longer paragraphs giving examples, and I think I'm getting past the Scriptorium tolerance level. Also, I need to end this water break and get back to work. I will say this whole discussion touches on what's becoming a primary interest of mine...)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
8:32 AM EST 11/23/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

I agree, Chrystie, about Nancy Pearl ... she's "public," for sure. We need many more like her.

My concern, though, lies on the management side: How do we make the public take us seriously? I think many do on the "youth services side" of things, some do on the "readers' advisory side" of what we do, precious few do on the "reference side." We need, somehow, to put our expertise in the public eye. I'm suggesting the "professional blog" as one way to do this.

I think we're at an interesting point in the "library press" -- it used to be that there were quite a few newsletters floating about with the "how I did it" message -- but nothing like what's possible with the blogosphere. Yet the problem with personal blogs is that they lack editing (for which reason, plus time constraints, I prefer group blogs like LISNews or Slashdot that, at least, rely of reputation). Maybe we need a library metablog, with strong editing.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:10 PM EST 11/23/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
For those who celebrate today, ditto library bob: Happy Thanksgiving! (We do it Friday, so today is cleaning and preparation...and a few minutes on the computer.)

Nancy Pearl is a fine example; agreed. It's a tricky role, being a big-P Public person (as opposed to small-p library public: That just happens).

The problem with newsletters is that they're frequently almost as isolated as individual libraries can be.

As I'm thinking (well, scheming, planning, seeing how this could work), I'm not thinking of a metablog so much as a "combined resource" with several faces, drawing from library blogs, personal blogs, other resources, and providing both small successes on an ongoing basis and a place to go back and study them in groups--not a single resource but a combination.

I have to say, I don't find Slashdot a model to emulate under any circumstances, and I don't really find LISNews better written than the better half of liblogs... (which isn't a dis, since I hold the better two-thirds of liblogs in high regard).

Anyway: See y'all next week, as I prepare to provide tough love for academic librarians in New York worried about commercialization/privatization.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
10:56 AM EST 11/24/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
I find Slashdot, etc., useful for breadth ... but agree that since there's no editing to speak of it doesn't "select the best" (which is what I think you're proposing, Walt). Reputation systems only go so far ... and I've pushed friends' books on Amazon myself.

Good luck in New York, by the way. "Privatization" should be everyone's worry as we face the issue of commercial on-demand access -- if the price gets down to a buck or so for *any* movie streamed to the home, we have a problem using tax payer dollars to offer something rather less convenient.

That's another reason, to my way of thinking, why we public library types need to sell our expertise. We need to ensure our "value add" to the local economy.

This has echoes of an old, old problem ... the lack of theory in librarianship.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:13 PM EST 11/24/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Happy Thanksgiving to all, I love knowing that WaltC is doing the ritual today instead. What a fabulous idea!

I'm very interested in Walt's idea - is this the thing that you were proposing via email to OCLC-related bloggers a few while's back? Or, were you thinking of editorializing a selection of "journalists" in a single web-space? Could we figure out how to do that here at WJ? I'm interested...and if anyone else is interested I think we should just put our heads together and figure out how to make it happen.

The timing is right too, because we are knee-deep in thinking about what types of more participatory/contributory functionalities we need to make WJ more available for individual contribution - without completely giving up on the idea of high quality / vetted content. Both are important for us, and it's always been a matter of figuring out how to balance and create synergy between them.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:51 PM EST 11/24/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
I'm interested in helping.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:37 PM EST 11/25/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Chrystie-

I've forgotten the email (!). I've been playing with some ideas, some of which I'd like to see as work-related (a still open set of issues for me!), some of which need to go beyond that. They're still not fully gelled, and probably need putting some heads together. Yes, I do see WebJunction as ideally a/the key player in this -- or as a lead actor, at least. Maybe I should put together better notes and email them to you...or maybe this requires some discussion that's more direct than either SJVS or email.

First, of course, the tryptophan has to wear off.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:24 PM EST 12/1/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Thought I might polish the bar a bit ...

One of my fave reads is The Straight Dope: http://www.straightdope.com/

It recently completed a three part series on copyright. Did anyone else read it?

That issue gets my attention (now and then, anyway) because I believe the content providers can't abide public libraries not paying "per use."
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:48 PM EST 12/1/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Hey WaltC, why not post your ideas here as well. Maybe you, me, and LB can all put our heads together on how to get something going here (at least).
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:09 PM EST 12/2/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Hi Chrystie,

I'm willing to do that--you already have those ideas in your possession, and if you think they're worth sharing, let me know and I'll cut-and-paste the text here.

Not this weekend, though; recovering from a quick and odd/exhausting speaking trip.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
10:30 AM EST 12/4/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Lots of exhaution in my area this weekend ... near blizzard conditions and heavy snow. We didn't open Friday, the first library closing in at least 24 years.

It's silly to send employees into danger.

Here's something I wanted to bring up regarding e-mails, lists, and conferencing. It's just one data point but maybe indicative of something.

Walt responded via e-mail to my publib post on "professional blogs." So did five others (all were supportive, with a couple concerns about making this multiple blogs rather than a "group" one). There was only one response on publib, and that was from Rachel Singer Gordon, who used to work for me.

(She had good reason to consider herself an "accidental systems librarian." I didn't. :-) )

Anyway, this is to say that being "in public" via either a list or on a board seems to inhibit a lot of people. I'm not at all sure why; it's not like we're "taking down names" of the ignorant, stupid, or inane.

But, perhaps, that's how it seems to work in "professional life" for many people. Perhaps they're merely afraid to offend "Someone."
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:11 PM EST 12/4/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I think that's quite true--and to some extent we all do "take down names" subconsciously, whether we intend to or not. (I'll admit that, on one list that shall go unnamed, I've come to regard two participants as hotheaded dogmatic fools, where they come off as perfectly reasonable on their blogs. I wouldn't be surprised if some people think of me that way for similar reasons.)

Many (most?) people regard public speaking with more fear than divorce and only a little less than death. Public posting may not be as bad as public speaking, but the 90:9:1 rule (90% only read, 9% comment, 1% post) is based on human nature as much as on any particular medium. (Nothing new here: I believe that many/most magazines publish pretty much every genuine reader letter they receive, which comes out to maybe .001%-.1% of their readership.) We are, most of us, mostly private people, most of the time.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:40 PM EST 12/4/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
It's an odd thing (sorta) from my POV. I understand the problem on the surface (as a statistical demonstration) but suspect it goes a tad deeper than that ... it also goes to a particular understanding of "professionalism."

A year or so prior to everyone-and-his/her-brother having an e-mail address I started a round-robin mailing list for various public-library people (mostly) whose writings I admired. It was a place to pass around first drafts or comment on various professional issues.

IIRC, something more than half of the people I contacted agreed to join. They didn't know me from Adam but relished the opportunity to put their ideas into "a semi-public pot" where they could be critiqued.

Standing up for critique, in my view, is a kind of "public honor." It is a personal recognition that one is "professing" a point-of-view which needs defense and/or development ... in a way, this is the action which traditionally defined "professionalism." Now, unfortunately, it too often simply means working where that word is in the job title.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:23 PM EST 12/5/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
(I admit I'm "high-church" on this sort of thing. ;-) )
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
8:18 PM EST 12/5/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
LB, it is a small frickin' world. I had no idea that RSG worked in your library!! emoticon

WaltC, you know, I love the ideas that show up in pages 2-8 of the document you reference. These are the ones that I think have the most synergy with what we're striving for at WebJunction, and it may just be worth checking to see if readers think the same.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
8:54 PM EST 12/5/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Chrystie,

Whew. I suspect seven pages of Word is a bit long for an SJVS post, but I'll take a look at the document tomorrow morning and post some extracts from it. I'd certainly like to think there's synergy with WebJunction.

More tomorrow, assuming keeping the trains running (coping with data repository problems that are getting in the way of customer reports, which we have to keep producing until the old RLG services move to Dublin) doesn't swamp me.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
9:11 AM EST 12/6/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
(Rachel worked in the library I was at previous to this one.)
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:45 PM EST 12/6/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Here's perhaps the most cogent writeup--and it is an expansion of what I was talking about a few days ago (more or less) here:

What did I actually have in mind? It’s still fuzzy, but it’s something that I believe WebJunction (with support from other OCLC areas) would be well qualified to do, and that I might have a worthwhile part in. Here’s the rough idea:

A. One or more people doing widespread scanning of blogs (library and librarian), wikis, online newsletters, other resources, and the library websites that have blogs (because they’re more likely to have other innovations), looking for “small successes” (and failures): Interesting local initiatives of various sorts. If feasible, following up on some of those initiatives with email requests for more information. There would also be easy ways to submit new reports for libraries that don’t currently have good ways to do so—probably within the wiki below.

B. A three-part approach to making those successes and failures useful for other libraries and librarians (and here it gets really fuzzy):

1. A periodic online publication that samples the best—a “Scout Report” for smaller library initiatives, if you will—something appearing periodically to intrigue readers.

2. A wiki or some other means of storing brief writeups and links, designed so that librarians could search by type of library, type of activity, size of library…and with heavy links to (and from) other library wikis.

3. Ideally, something akin to Worldcat.org’s zip code function, so that a library could identify nearby libraries where they might be able to find help and talk to people who’ve done things they’re thinking about doing.

We’re hearing that hundreds of libraries are doing great (mostly small) things. Some of them aren’t well reported, but most of them do leave tracks of one sort or another. I think an ongoing initiative of this sort could improve the situation and encourage libraries to cooperate more effectively.

The other chunk that may be particularly relevant for WebJunction is the "sixth most likely book idea" (that is, if I had endless time and energy) and its relationship to the new Gates library-marketing grant. I'll post that as a second reply to keep this from being too long.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:49 PM EST 12/6/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Second portion. First (pardon me while I refresh my water...) (ahem, back now):
<p>
The book concept:
<p>
<b>Books are Just the Beginning: Telling Your Library’s Story, Expanding Your Library’s Brand:</b> This one—the least likely of the lot as something I’d do on my own—is based on a concept I’d discussed with George Needham: Finding ways for each library to tell its own story and expand its own brand, recognizing that the basis for almost every library’s brand (some special libraries excepted) is and should be “books,” and that almost every library needs to base its story around the library as place and service.
<p>
Additional commentary:
<p>
The last book is really a concept, and one I believe has considerable merit for OCLC, particularly in connection with the Gates grant. A national library marketing campaign may be a wonderful thing, but it will be more effective if it works with and feeds many thousand ongoing individual campaigns, each one telling one library’s story and how that story is changing.
<p>
I see two areas of particular interest in the “local stories” idea:
<p>
1. Setting out templates and ideas for local libraries to use in developing and communicating local stories, recognizing that such templates and ideas will themselves vary by type and size of library.
<p>
2. Helping libraries identify their own special stories, in part through extended statistical analysis. HAPLR seeks to identify the “top X” libraries within a size category by using a mix of measures. A local story initiative would find a set of measures that could be applied to a kind of library, setting out to find specifics in which a given library either excels or does better than average. In my heart of hearts, I’d like to believe there are no completely uninteresting local libraries. Realistically, I believe most public and nearly all academic libraries have specific areas in which they’re significantly better than average—and that many of the librarians are unaware of those areas. Every library has a story to tell; in almost every case, I believe, it’s a distinctive story.
<p>
Hmm. This being SJVS, something less formal might be useful, and I think it's down there in the earlier portion of the document (which appears last but was written first--it's a long "RLG transition" story). Let's make that a third post!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:53 PM EST 12/6/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Third (and final, for now) portion, giving away all my ideas (nothing new there!): Lots'o'repetition with the two previous, I'm afraid.
<p>
I believe America's public libraries don't need a campaign so much as each of them needs their campaign, a set of strategies unique to each library. Two strengths of America's public libraries are their diversity and locality. Each library is distinct, with a distinctive set of services, strengths and weaknesses; each library serves a distinct population.
<p>
As one example of tailored local self-help initiatives, many public libraries could mount local campaigns along these lines: <b>"Happyville Public Library. Two stories high, 200,000 stories deep. Find your story here." </b>That's a tag line, supported by an enumeration of the types of stories (e.g., 50,000 works of fiction; 60,000 nonfiction books; 20,000 stories in song or on video; 70,000 stories in Happyville's growing local history collection). "200,000 stories" is the story—the ideas that a good public library combines many kinds of stories and libraries are increasingly places for people to build their own stories. I use "story" in the broadest sense: Every work of fiction, every linear work of nonfiction, every narrative in a local history collection, and so on. [This is off-the-cuff thinking, but the strength of stories is important. Isn't every MySpace page and every blog at least partially an attempt to tell "my story"?]
<p>
A more complex example: <b>"Everybody is a star." </b>Can OCLC (WebJunction and elsewhere) help individual libraries—particularly smaller libraries and badly-funded libraries—find the areas in which they excel? Can we help them tell that story and use it as leverage to improve their weaknesses? Building from strength generally works better than pleading weakness, at least on an ongoing basis, and I suspect almost every public library has some strengths, possibly overlooked even locally.
<p>
New library services (call them "Library 2.0" or not) can help make a library attractive to new patrons and more relevant for existing patrons. But libraries that don't have funding and staff for experimental work need help finding out what works (and how), what doesn't work (and why), what unintended consequences need to considered—and how they can get point-of-need assistance when starting a new service. A number of existing initiatives could be collated and encouraged in order to gain evidence on good ways to introduce innovative services. WebJunction and its partners could specifically help libraries on the last point, finding and encouraging "sister library" partnerships with contacts to answer questions at the point of need. Workshops are great—but Library X, with a small overburdened staff, really needs to know that Library Y has a person who's "done this" and is willing to offer advice when Library X is ready to act.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:49 PM EST 12/6/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Hey, great flood of ideas, waltc!

>>A more complex example: "Everybody is a star." Can OCLC (WebJunction and elsewhere) help individual libraries—particularly smaller libraries and badly-funded libraries—find the areas in which they excel? Can we help them tell that story and use it as leverage to improve their weaknesses?<<

It strikes me that much of this kind of energy is already happening in WJ's Rural Library Sustainability project. The [url /forums/category.jspa?categoryID=98 ]Rural forums[/url] are alive with micro-stories about successes in small libraries, especially in the 'action plan' threads in the [url /forums/forum.jspa?forumID=267 ]state-specific forums[/url].

The problem is that the info is scattered and not easy to search and collocate. The project coordinator has started the manual process of doing this: the harvest is in the [url /do/Navigation?category=13462 ]Rural Brainstorms[/url] section of our site.

I'm eager to see what gels out of this conversation.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
6:02 PM EST 12/6/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Thanks. I had the sense that the Rural Library Sustainability Project might be doing pieces of this, and I'm delighted to see that some harvesting is happening. Collocation and locatability are tough nuts to even crack partially, but I think it can happen.

(I've been a little frustrated by the library-wiki scene, where it seems as though people are more inclined to start new ones than to add to existing ones. Intentional cross-links can help.)

Ideas are one thing; translating them to projects is another. The group of posts was excerpted from something I prepared for mercenary purposes, trying to help define where within OCLC I might wind up...since "keeping the trains running" in Mountain View will wind down over the next few months. My own evening-and-weekend time is pretty well spoken for, and I'm not quite ready to stop the writing I do now.

But getting the ideas out there is good. None of these situations and needs is going to go away any time soon ("ever" may be the right word). If RLS starts one piece of harvesting and collocation, that's at least one piece going forward.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:04 PM EST 12/7/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Telling your library's story has a great start with this toolkit from the State Library in Iowa.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:49 PM EST 12/7/06 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
I think it's somewhat more complex than telling our stories ... though many can. Many others, I think, have either forgotten their stories or never knew they had any.

Libraries are more than depositories of books; they are also repositories of ideas and (ideally, in my view) bastions of the enlightenment.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:00 PM EST 12/8/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Librarybob: I certainly don't disagree. "Stories" covers a lot more than books (we express ideas via stories; we enlighten ourselves and one another via stories and conversations that grow out of stories)--but trying to get away from books as a basic library brand is, I believe, futile and maybe self-destructive.

I also agree that one big part of telling our stories is discovering or rediscovering those stories. That was my thrust at the talk I did a week ago: Academic librarians, in this case, need to figure out what their story is--what they do that matters. Some of the details I was starting to suggest have to do with helping libraries to build their stories.

I'm very taken with "Books are only the beginning"--it recognizes that there's more to a library than books, but it doesn't attempt to dismiss books as the basic library brand.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:35 PM EST 12/8/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
Books will be around for a while. :-)

There's a nice recent set of articles in Forbes.com on the "future of the book." They're important, both in themselves and as the containers of ideas.

This also goes back to the ROI problem: how do we demonstrate a return on investment?

Actually, I think most libraries can demonstrate a strong ROI, stronger than that of most companies ... the question becomes, "How do we make the "powers that be" care?

Number One Answer: know who they are and talk to them.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:45 PM EST 12/20/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
<tidying up a bit>

Sarah Long, Executive Director of the North Suburban Library System and former ALA prez, has an interview program for a local "library channel." Much of my district is unincorporated, which means satellite dishes rather than cable, so I haven't been much interested.

Anyway, she brought her camera crew here last week and did a ten minute interview of moi.

She asked me what I thought was the most important development in libraries over the time I've been in the profession (that's since 1975). Since I had zero time to reflect on this I glibly said "Library 2.0" -- and maybe it is.

The near real-time interaction with a population which sees such interaction as "normal" is surely different from what public librarians have ever experienced in the past. I think its importance trumps our shift from a paper-based technology to an electronic one.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:12 PM EST 12/20/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Interesting that you should say "Library 2.0" in the spontaneous moment! Have you read [url http://worldcat.org/oclc/55679231&referer=brief_results ]Blink[/url] by Malcolm Gladwell (author of The Tipping Point)? The book is about trusting those intuitive non-deliberated responses --good reading.

Did you read about the Wikipedia v Library 2.0 controversy? The [url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_2.0 ]L2 entry[/url] was threatened with deletion from the people's online encyclopedia as a neologism not notable enough for retention --oh no! You can imagine (well, you can read for yourself) the [url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Library_2.0 ]flurry of protestations[/url]. The verdict is to keep the entry.

A salient characteristic of L2 is the interactivity and the incorporation of user-generated content and input. It seems this is somewhat threatening to traditional notions of librarianship, not just because of the shift to electronic format, but because of the de-emphasis of the "public intellectual" role. It puts library staffers more in the role of facilitators and enablers with less room for disseminating and instructing.

Is it possible to link to your 10 minutes of fame broadcast?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:24 PM EST 12/20/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I haven't read Blink. I've read several reviews and, ah, am looking for more hours in the day.

I don't know when it will be broadcast (and also don't know if there's a web version, but rather doubt it). :-(

I suppose they'll tell me.

Actually, I think L2 promises to make the librarian a public intellectual ... because there will be no place to hide. :-) It *will* force us to be a lot quicker on our feet and, I hope, rely on the help of others.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
4:47 PM EST 12/20/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Re Wikipedia and L2: It is worth noting that, as far as I know, every response from within the library field, including mine and those from others who aren't wild about the term, said that the article should be retained. The notion to delete came from one of Wikipedia's many Delete Squadrons, as far as I can tell.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
2:14 PM EST 12/21/06 as a reply to Walt Crawford.
I find the Wikipedia process fascinating. I think it's a good thing that entries are challenged and subsequently defended. The two "delete" recommendations stemmed from WP policy and the 44 'keep' responses adequately addressed the reasons why the policies don't apply to the L2 entry. That tells me it's a system that is working the way it should.

LB, I see how librarians can no longer hide behind the reference desk. Yes, we all have to be "quicker on our feet" (or with our digits). I still think it's an adjustment for many to accept that the public's creative input and self-expression has a place in the sanctified world of classification and information dissemination. I'm looking forward to an ALA Midwinter presentation on "Next-Gen Sharing Libraries", which will explore the new demands for delivery and fulfillment.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:19 PM EST 12/21/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
If you want to have fun, mention "folksonomie" and see people run!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:38 PM EST 12/21/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
lol! Send them to [url http://www.librarything.com/tagcloud.php ]LibraryThing[/url] --it could be some cataloger's worst nightmare, but 121K + members think it's just great!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
10:53 PM EST 12/24/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
<sneaking in>

It's Christmas Eve ... Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Hannakuh, and a Cool Yule to all!!!!

<softly stepping out>
Re: joice
11:16 AM EST 12/27/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Happy Holly Daze Mr Bartender!
Re: joice
12:45 PM EST 12/27/06 as a reply to < maddog >.
And a Ho! Ho! Ho! to you, maddog.

By the way ... I should have said something much sooner ... congratulations to you and ElectricMinds. 10 years!!!!
Re: joice
4:28 PM EST 12/28/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
<wiping the table>

Tea? Coffee? Sumtin' else?

I got a nice French press for Christmas and thought I might try it out here. The secret seems to be in getting a consistently coarse grind ... I had to dismantle my grinder to do it.

Anyway, I was thinking on what Walt said and have to agree that there's a great need to "bind" (if you'll forgive a bookish pun) the various bloggish pages into something like a whole. There's quite a bit out there and most of it is going to be unread ... and certainly uncommented upon ... unless it's brought to people's attention.

RSS feeds have a way of overwhelming people. An "amalgamater" if not an "editor" is called for. So is some intelligent indexing.

Attachments: french_press.jpg (5.6k)   
R & R
4:00 PM EST 12/30/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Just noting that I'll be scarce for a few days. :-)
Re: joice
12:45 PM EST 1/2/07 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I love the holiday cheer around here. And it's great to see maddog dropping by! emoticon

Happy New Year to all of our community! I'll raise a toast to the ongoing vitality of libraries of all types and sizes and to the dedicated people who sustain them!!

LB, I like the new french coffee press. We'll see you when you get back.
Re:lapsed
4:52 PM EST 1/3/07 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I am trying to give up coffee but you can wave it under my nose as you pass a cup to Betha...
Re:lapsed
1:36 PM EST 1/4/07 as a reply to < maddog >.
I used to take occasional breaks from coffee - now I just take lots of coffee breaks! emoticon I hope everyone had a happy holiday. Did you go on vacation LB? WJ-IL is coming soon. I hope we get the chance to work together a bit on it. Though, maddog may tell you that he has had a hard time switching to WJ-NH from the general site - do you still prefer it maddog?
Re:lapsed
7:27 AM EST 1/6/07 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
Just now back from Walt Disney World. Beautiful weather ... low 80s most of the time ... and a wicked good new roller coaster at Animal Kingdom.
Re:lapsed
6:27 PM EST 1/6/07 as a reply to Bob Watson.
I feel so out of touch! I see I missed quite the involved discussion recently. Things are a bit chilly here in MT with snow and wind - glad some folks had a warm vacation!

We are moved to our new library now and adjusting fairly well - 2 new public desks (an Information Desk near the entry, and a Computer Services desk at the internet stations) and no new staff means more desk time for all of us. And library traffic has increased quite a bit (1400 a day instead of the 1000 we'd been used to). But the coffee shop in the lobby is wonderful!

Hope to stop by a little more regularly...
Coffee?
10:11 AM EST 1/8/07 as a reply to Pam Henley.
I hope it warms up there. The mid-west and east have been freakishly warm due to the El Nino ... I know Chicago was in the 50s last week while we were gone.

Meantime ... I'll pour a few cups of coffee and see who wants cream and/or sugar.

(I'm hoping someone at the state library will contact me about WJ-IL. Interacting here requires a bit more than a URL and a set of instructions.)
Re: Coffee?
12:04 PM EST 1/8/07 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Agreed. If we've learned anything about working with the states we're partnering with thus far, it's that getting people engaged from outside the state library is an important success factor. I'll definitely keep you posted as I learn more about IL's plans!
Re: Coffee?
12:52 PM EST 1/19/07 as a reply to Chrystie Hill.
I guess we'll see....

No one's dropped by lately, so let me recount a local coup: our Foundation sent out a few ALA posters in hope that celebrities would sign them. Not only did Melissa Etheridge sign one, but she "called in a marker" and had Steven Spielberg donate an autographed DVD!
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:53 PM EST 11/22/06 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Word has it that the list problem is fixed now.

Bob, I'd like to hear more about your "best practices" focus group. I agree that part of it is the "want to be left alone" syndrome. Another big part is time, which is what I hear so often: "I just don't have time to do anything extra!" I'll introduce a possible third factor, which is humans' inherent egocentricity. People like to (re)invent the wheel. WJ keeps promoting sharing to avoid reinventing the wheel, but I think there's an instinct to come up with original ideas and lay claim to innovative solutions without having to admit to outside influences.

Not to get too discouraged --there is a lot of sharing that goes on, although not to the maximum capacity that it could be. A lot it happens here on our boards. Also, the [url http://www.libsuccess.org/index.php?title=Main_Page ]Library Success wiki[/url] is getting more robust every month. The lists (which you missed as soon as there was a glitch) are pretty darn active.

Oh yes, coffee would be great as I start prepping for the big feast tomorrow. emoticon
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:04 PM EST 11/22/06 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
I totally agree with LB that librarians should be aware of their need to be out and under the public eye. One of my favorite public librarian blogs is Travels with the State Librarian from Christie Brandau in KS.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:05 PM EST 1/19/07 as a reply to Bob Watson.
Nothing to say really. This is my first post and I want to see if it works.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
5:55 PM EST 1/19/07 as a reply to Dennis Stewart.
Hi Dennis! Welcome to St. Jerry's ... and congratulations that your post *did* work. :-)

Where are you posting from?
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
1:06 PM EST 1/24/07 as a reply to Dennis Stewart.
I'll second that welcome to Dennis. Come on back. emoticon

LB, what a coup to get Melissa Etheridge and Steven Speilberg advocating for your library! Makes me think there's some untapped potential there.

I'd like to revive an old St. Jerry's tradition of sharing a quotation with the company here, so here's one from M Etheridge herself:

“Don't let anyone tell you that you have to be a certain way. Be unique. Be what you feel
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
3:23 PM EST 1/24/07 as a reply to Betha Gutsche.
Hmmm ... in the tradition of virtual bars everywhere, that earns you a free drink. ;-)

There's lots of potential. We also have stuff from Denzel Washington and Orlando Bloom. The thing is, you need a bit of tenacity and a bit of time.

Our Foundation chairman has a bit of both. He's professionally busy but he and his wife have no kids, plus the library can help out with mailing, duplicating, etc.
Re: St. Jerry's Virtual Scriptorium
12:13 AM EST 1/27/07 as a reply to Bob Watson.
surely dennis wants a drink!