I'd like to thank all of our state library agencies for their support of Webjunction. Their support is making this opportunity free to all of you who wish to attend and also a special thank you to IMLS for their support of this research that you will be hearing about, as well as to the bill and M elinda gates foundation. Pearson, Peterson, we have one syllable differing in your name. We are glad to have the other JP from OCLC here today. Jennifer Pearson, OCLC community relations programs manager. She has been leading the work with the research you are going to hear about today. It is great to have you here, Jennifer, and I'm going to pass it on over to you. >> Jennifer Pearson: Okay. Thank you, other JP. Jennifer Peterson and I have worked for OCLC for around the same number of years, but have recently started to work very closely together, as I have been working on advocacy projects for public libraries and now we're even in the same group, community relations encompasses Webjunction now. So there is all sorts of confusion. We are not the same person. We can occasionally be seen in the same place together to confirm that as well. I would like to thank Jennifer and Stephanie and Anne today for their support of this webinar. And I would like to start out by telling you guys more specifically what we will be talking about today. There are a lot of challenges around e-books that public libraries are facing right now. We will be talking specifically about one of them today. I want you all to know up front what we are going to be talking about. And if you have come to a -- this webinar and thought gee, that is not what I wanted to hear about at all. Feel free to leave. You will only hurt my feelings a little bit. But I will try not to notice all of the attendees dropping off. Today, specifically the challenge that libraries face around access from publishers. So buying of e-books, accessing e-books from the publishers. That's one of -- one of the challenges you all face. I'm sure there are others, lots of others, like teaching people how to use e-book readers. Teacher people how to access e-books once they're on your platform. All sorts of things. This project that I have been working on and I will be talking about today specifically talks about the challenges around access from publishers and what we are doing in this project that we call the Big Shift Project, to address those challenges, along with your colleagues. That is what we are going to be talking about today. I cannot teach anything how to use an e-book device other than a Kindle paper white because that is what I happen to own. I cannot suggest how to make access easier once you have actually gotten an e-book for your patrons, but I can tell you about what is is looking like with access from publishers and how we're hoping to affect that with what we're doing. We will talk some about the growing impact of e-books in the public library sphere and in general. I will tell you more about what the Big Shift Project actually is, and the research and surveys that we did as part of this project to come to strategies that now actually some of your colleagues are putting into action as we speak. And at the very end, we will talk about how you all can get involved, should you want to be more involved in any of the strategies that we're working on right now. So, let's start with interesting statistics. And as Jennifer Peterson said at the top of the hour, I know a lot about this. You all know a lot about this. So as I'm going through this, and I'm talking about -- about who is reading e-books and how they're reading e-books and what's happening in the e-book world, if you have anything to add to anything that I'm saying, please chat it out. Because this is such a changing and dynamic atmosphere right now that I'm sure I'm missing things all over the place as I go. But who is reading e-books? According to pew, my favorite, favorite organization to quote because they do so much good work in this area, about 23% of the population right now are active e-book readers. As ownership in the devices is growing, e-book readers and tablets are growing. We're increasing our e-book readers and e-book reader population. Currently most e-book readers are college grads. They're in my age range, 30-49, and they are upper middle class for the most part. We will see all of this start to change as e-books become more a part of the reading experience for all Americans, as we see prices start to go down on e-book readers, and tablets themselves. They're already talking about free Kindles. So, as we see the cost go down, as we see a shift in e-books as becoming more and more of the norm for both pleasure and for education, we will see these demographics start to shift. It has already increased 23% up from 16% in 2011. It is increasing quite a bit year-over-over as access to these devices grows. So, how are people reading e-books? Generally they're reading e-books by either a tablet, a dedicated e-book reader, or a smartphone. Americans right now have 61 million tablets, 61 million Americans have bought tablets or 61 million tablets in American households today. 40 million E-readers, dedicated E-readers in American households today. That is still a small part of our population, but it continues as I said to grow. And as it grows, you will see people like Apple and Amazon and Google continue to grow their importance in this sphere. As you all know, Amazon right now is the dominant player in e-book sales. Estimated 60% of the e-book sales market. With the Kindle fire, they also said the Kindle fire was the biggest selling product across Amazon over the holiday season. Not only the E-reader, but the tablet, set up to compete with the tablets that Apple and Google and other people are doing. Apple is continuing to grow their content sales. Apple obviously as you all know started out mostly with music with iTunes. The Apple ibookstore is growing. About a billion titles and they're continuing to grow the e-books portion of their i-purchasing store. What about e-book access in public libraries? How is that changing? How is that growing? Well, it is growing an awful lot. The circulation in public libraries doubled from 2009 to 2010, and quadrupled from 2010 to 2011, according to studies. As part of our research in the big shift project, we surveyed libraries as well and I will get into that in depth later. The libraries that we surveyed said that they saw an increase from 2011 to 2012 of about 54%. So, it is continuing to rise as we see more access -- more access to e-readers. Even though over 76% of you all are lending e-books right now, only about 12% of library borrowers have actually borrowed an e-book from you. Somewhere upwards of half -- the numbers change depending on the research you look at -- but around half of your cardholders do not know you offer e-books. This may be because you don't want to publicize it a lot because of the issues around e-books and e-book access. 56% of the people who have bought any books say they can't get the titles they want when they are serving for them because of inability to purchase these titles from the publishers. So, it will be interesting to me if any of you guys want to chat, do any of you lend e-books, are you actively pub pub -- publicizing that you lend e-books and where are you publicizing it? Do you see when you publicize it if lending does go up and do you have people who talk to you about not being able to get access to all of the titles they want? I would just be curious to see what you guys are saying about all of this. So, we do know that demand is growing. Demand from your patrons is definitely growing. I'm a cardholder from two of the best public libraries in the country, and I -- I look to check out an e-book before I buy one every time. And I will tell you that about 50% of the time I am either on a long waiting list or they don't have access to the book I want. So, even as someone who knows where it's at, it's still frustrating to me that I can't have access to all of the books that I want to borrow. And that, yes, I do have to go pay for them, and unfortunately the e-books I want to read seem to be the ones that cost $12.99 and not 99 cents. So, I'm looking at some of the chat. Interesting. Lots of publicity. People having trouble using the interfaces, which is another big issue in the e-books. Promoting them. People linking problems with patrons waiting for books, publicizing on the web site, lessons, Facebook, web site, suggest a purchase form. Patrons get frustrated about things before 2009 not available. Lots of interesting stuff. Thank you for sharing that with me. So, with did the Big Shift come from? It came from all of the things I talked about earlier. And it came from -- it came -- it really specifically came from a gathering of librarians in the fall of 2011, at the Los Angeles public library. The director, now in the academic world at USC, but he and some of his colleagues, Pat from here in Columbus, Columbus Metro and some others had a keen interest in e-book access for public libraries and got together a lot of big thinkers to think about what the different issues were and how we could address them. And one of the issues that came out of that was this issue of access from publishers and while some publishers, you know, are selling e-books, they might be selling them at three times a consumer cost. Or they're selling them and they're putting lots and lots of restrictions on them, whether it be -- you can't lend front list, you can only lend 26 times. They found that was a big issue. And so from there, we at OCLC worked with those guys and we worked with IMLS to come up with a grant proposal to address, to figure out how to more effectively address this issue. So, it is, as Jennifer Peterson said, this is an IMLS funded planning grant. It is just that. It is a planning grant. We were granted funding to do the research that we've done and the surveying that we have done and to create a report that will be putting out to the library community late this spring, early summer. And to work with you and your colleagues to look at the research we did, to understand where everybody is with these issues, and to come up with strategies to mitigate the challenges that libraries are facing in terms of accessing e-books from publishers. Now, these strategies are currently being worked on by your colleagues in the public library sphere. It is not OCLC who is working on the strategies, it is only OCLC who convened the people who decided what the strategies would be and are working on them. OCLC's role in all of this has been to do the research, to do the surveys, to publish a report, and to gather people to create -- to create and work on the strategies that we will talk about later. And then the long-term goal of this project, or of these strategies, of this work, is public access to commercially-published content in any format. Basically what this is saying is that we feel that public libraries should be able to have equitable access to content no matter what format it is published in. If you are selling us the book, you should be selling the e-book equitiably as you would the book itself. So, that's what that is all about. We did research on -- we did research on the biggest players in the library e-book ecosystem, or in the e-book ecosystem in general. And here is who they are. The big six publishers, Random House, Macmillan, Penguin, Simon & Shuster -- Random House and Penguin merging with Random House's parent company, taking over 53% of that organization within this year. We will be down to a big five. And possibly a big four as there has been suggested merger talks about harper Collins and Simon & Shuster as well. This is a very dynamic atmosphere right now. Big six publishers make up just over 50% of the U.S. publishing industry. And currently, today, not including the pilot programs that are going on, libraries have access to about 30% of the big six e-books titles. If you take the 50% we have about 30 -- access to about 30% of those currently. So, this is, you know, I mean, 50% is a lot. And only having access to 30% of that 50% is a big detriment to libraries and library users. This often comes at a higher cost and at restrictions. As you all know, Random House famously charges quite a bit more in general for libraries to purchase their e-books than they do consumers. Once you have them, you get to keep them, and there aren't restrictions on them, but you are paying quite a bit more for them. These publishers are all really struggling, really struggling with this new business model to shift from plant to electronic format. Publishers -- publishers have historically and continue to be friends to libraries. Now, what we don't always take into consideration is that most of these publishers are owned by larger parent companies that are friends to profit margins. While publishers are also friend to profit margin, publishers tend to be friends to libraries and have historically been friends to libraries but are struggling along with their parent companies to understand how to operate in conjunction with libraries with the new business model of E-books and how they provide e-books to us in libraries without threatening -- without threatening their bottom line. So, they're all struggling with that. They're all interested in figuring out how to do that. Unfortunately we're all caught in the middle of that. That's the big fix. And then there is the big, big old behemoth distributor to libraries, which is Overdrive. 92% of you get your e-books from Overdrive currently. Not if you are in the state of Kansas, as Paula reminds us. That was very interesting what Joe Butler did for the campus libraries, which I think was a very, very bold move, but as Paula says, long waits for some items. I have a Facebook friend who has nothing to do with libraries who lives in Kansas who was lamenting the changeover, but did understand why Kansas is doing what they're doing. Paula, if you want to EKS extrapolate a little bit in chat what's happening in Kansas, that would be great, and I will continue on with my conversation here. But Overdrive, you know, love them or hate them, they are the biggest distributor to public libraries right now, and they're the only distributor that has a good relationship with Amazon to allow people to check out library e-books on their Kindles. So, they have been able to create this partnership with Amazon that no one else has so far, and while we may not approve of what they're doing, it certainly does make it easier for those of us with a Kindle device or app to check out a library book on our Kindle devices. And then there are the big three online retail players. Amazon, Apple, and Google. So, all of these -- all of these folks have different business models. It is very obvious that, you know, Amazon is not playing the game that Apple is playing and Apple is not playing the game that Google is playing and Google is not playing the same game as either one of the others. But they all have a huge stake in digital content and digital devices. So, they're all really big players in the market that we're looking at right now. Amazon, obviously, is dominating e-book sales -- Amazon, although sometimes we tend to think of Amazon as a bookstore, book seller, e-book seller, they are not. They are the largest retailer online, period. And what Amazon is interested in is learning how to sell you what you want. And they learn how to do that from the day that they mine from you based on what you are buying from them and probably what you are borrowing from Overdrive. While we tend to see them as a bookstore, online virtual bookstore, which they are, they are really an online virtual retailer. And what they're really interested in is learning how to sell you what you want, rather that is an e-book or a new pair of tennis shoes. Apple on the other hand is more in the market of the hardware itself. The tablet, of the pad, the POD, the phone, the i everything. They have 78 percent of the tablet market. It is declining a little bit as other people are falling into the tablet market, but they have the widest by far margin of tablets there. And their ibookstore is growing. Apple, they currently do not have a stance one way or another on library e-book lending. They are looking somewhat to people in the library community to help them figure that out. What should they do in terms of working with libraries to work with them on e-book lending. And then there is it Google. Google is all about search. Google is all about access. But they're also in the tablet business. And they are also a good friend of libLibrary -- librarians and they have lots and lots and lots of money to make a move on whatever it is that they want to do. When you look at the three big online folks, Google has about $45 billion in cash, as compared to apple's $29, as compared to Amazon's $5.2. When you look at somebody in a good position to do whatever it is they want in order to make smart business moves, Google is really there. And they're really poised to do just about whatever they want in this market. It is going to be interested to watch what Google decides to do. And I'm pausing because I'm looking at what is happening on chat right now. There is so much interesting happening on chat. Somebody has already talked about Amazon's purchase of good read and ruined my slide back here that has that. And that's okay. I find it interesting, the discussion about -- what's the difference between a library buying a copy of a book and having 100 people check it out or buying a copy of an e-book and have 100 people check it out. Well, there is not much of a difference. The argument goes with a publisher, digital something is there in perpetuity, and that a physical something will wear out after a certain period of time so you will have to buy another one. So, until -- until -- there is a little validity in that. I don't think that you're probably going to -- I don't think that you're probably going to start a physical item 100 times before it wears out. I don't think you're probably going to -- a digital item 100 times either. I think -- a bit of a false construct on the part of the publishers, but I think they just don't know what to do about it right now. Wondering what public libraries do to help build where Overdrive has holes. Baker & Taylor 360, Penguin, Overdrive -- my screen just went dark. I think that the new tiles will only be available through 3M and BNT. That is true with Penguin for now. They are not working with Overdrive. We will talk about that a little more later. The nook and B & N, we will see. They're not really a big player. They are not getting any bigger. They are investing in the Nook technology. With B & N, they seem to be going from some of the moves that they have made recently, more into the education realm. They have been doing things with Pearson, which looks to be that they are signalling that they might want to take their technology and use it in a different way. So, that's what seems to be signalling with B & N today, right now. So, it's all very interesting. So, these are the big players. These are the people we looked at and we searched in the Big Shift research. And what they're doing. So, here we go. Here is -- here is what the big six right now are doing currently as of this month, April, with library lending. I have had to change this since we published the original research in January. So, Random House is going to sell you anything you want unrestricted, and it is going to cost you. HarperCollins is going to sell you anything you want, but they're going to restrict 26-limit on all titles. And I could be curious to know as well, there was a lot of uproar about the 26 limit when it first came out. Oh, right, I will read what Carrie says. HarperCollins, 26 limit -- many of these books had over 100 starts. We range 150 to 200 on an item. They are not in bad shape. Proactive leader. I'm wondering, though, if you are seeing the same -- I'm wondering how that compares to e-books. Apples to oranges, which it has to be at this point. If you are saying 150 to 200 on the HarperCollins, I assume hard-back book, that you -- you would suppose that you would do the same with an e-book so you would suppose that 26 limit would mean you would have to buy it four or five times, right, in order to go those circs. E-book and e-book -- the 26 limit is generally not being hit today. Two years from now, maybe not. But generally it is not as much of an issue as it could have been. So, there is HarperCollins. Hachette is limited to back lists right now. There is some talk, and maybe some of you know more about this than I do. I haven't been able to figure it out. There was some talk of them, pilot program making e-books available to some libraries. There was talk of that. It seems to have disappeared. I'm not sure if that is still happening or not. If you are, post that in the chat. That would be interesting to know. Macmillan just launched a pilot making like five books available for two years, which is great, I guess. Really it is not five books, but 1,200 books. Penguin, they are allowing e-book lending at the same time that the hard-cover comes out, and -- but it is not available through Overdrive. No Kindle format as of now for Penguin books. Simon & Shuster just announced a pilot with the big libraries in the New York Metro area starting at the -- starting today, today. And that is through 3M as well. One of the things that Simon & Shuster specifically said is that they want to under standnd how lending books can affect people buying books. They really want to know -- they're really interested in finding out, you know, the -- does this -- does this help or hurt their consumer sales and I think we will find that it actually helps them from what we've seen S -- what we've seen. Just reading more of this chat. So I'm wondering -- now that all of the big six have some form of lending or pilot in place, how does this make you all feel about e-book lending for your patrons? Does it make you feel that it's, you know, a brighter future now that things are looking up, say, you know, they're better than they were six months ago when we didn't have anything from Simon & Shuster, when Penguin lending wasn't great, when there was nothing from Macmillan, when all we really had was HarperCollins and Random House and Hachette. What are your thoughts on how this is progressing? Do you see it as all positive? And if not, why not? Is it the cost? Is it the limited availability? Let's say everything's pilot goes public and everybody is now going to lend to libraries. Is that a good thing? What else needs to happen? I like Laurel saying it is a big mess. We need a whole new model. It is hard to explain to patrons who blame us for not having stuff. I'm sure it is. I am so sure it is. Too expensive. Yeah, and sally, it has been proven that people who borrow e-books from libraries are more likely to buy e-books, and, therefore, why don't they realize that it is overall more sales overall? I think they're starting to realize that, I think. And I think we just need to continue to show them that as we move forward, that we are good partners and not adversaries to them in terms of exposing people to e-books and helping them sell e-books. I usually borrow an e-book when it is something that I know that I'm just -- I just want to look at once. But I will always buy and usually it is a hardback book, but I will always buy it if it is something that I want to read more than once and I want to keep. I'm definitely a buyer-borrower, both. And I think most people are. I think there is a reason why you're going to do what you're going to do. Five step process to download an e-book to a Kindle -- also -- when you borrow an e-book from Overdrive, and it goes out to Amazon, everything -- Amazon is getting all of that information as well, which -- I have to say as a consumer, doesn't bother me. But I would say as a library, I would want to make sure that my patrons understood what was happening in that transaction. Because it is a very interesting transaction, I think, once you borrow something that goes into Amazon, and then it is owned by Amazon, or the transaction is. The other part of the research we did for this project was to survey public libraries. Survey public libraries about their relationship currently and in the future with e-book. Let me tell you a little background on what we did. Last November and December, we sent a survey to a the top 100 libraries -- the top 100 material budget libraries, according to IMLS. 100 libraries that spent the most money in the U.S. in their overall materials budget. We sent them a survey to ask them some questions about current and future spending for print and e-books. Spending and circulation of best sellers in print and e-book format, and also questions about what they would be willing to do to promote e-books and share data. 65 of those libraries participated in the survey. And these libraries represent about 36% of the nearly $1.3 billion spent on library materials, and collectively serve a population of over 90 million people, which is a third of the U.S. population. The findings suggest that e-book spending and circulation and demand are all growing, as you all know, and that libraries would be willing to increase their spending on e-books exponentially if e-book availability was improved from the publishers. So, this slide that is up here today, or up here right now, e-books in public libraries. What this is is e-book budgets for the libraries who are surveyed. You can see in 2011, e-book budget for these 55 libraries was about $21.5 million. And then the budgeted in 2012, was almost 31. So, that's a bit of a jump. The 2013 projected growth, and this is if things don't change with availability. That's with the assumption that they had in December that they only had the availability that they had from Hachette and Random House and HarperCollins. It would have gone up to about 32.5, which is only about a 5% growth. But we asked them, you know, so if the restrictions were lifted, if you had e-book availability from all of the big six, how would it grow? And their estimate was almost 45 million, which is a 46% growth. So, that is to say that these libraries think if they were given access to purchase any e-book that any of the big six has published, that their e-book growth, their e-book budget would grow by over 46%. And then we talked about -- then we went from gross numbers to expenditure change. So, the change in the percentage that they were spending. So, you have -- so, this is for 2013. The average material expenditure was going to go up by about 8% for these libraries in 2013. The average print was going to go down by 4%. E-book, same availability, would go up by 51% and if it was improved would go up by 110% for these libraries. So, that's a huge change. They're very optimistic that if availability goes up, that their purchasing power will go up. Which as somebody said earlier is only going to be good for the publishers, right? More money is more money. More sales are more sales. We looked at in general what their expenditures looked like, and then we took information from one week of the "New York Times" best seller list and we asked all of the libraries to do a Herculean task. If any of you are from any of the Libraries that did this and participated in this, I want to say thank you, because it was a difficult task for you guys. We asked you to take a look at the "New York Times" best seller list for June -- I'm flipping through here -- I think it was June sometime of last year, and to ask what you bought and how much you bought in both hard copy and in e-books of those best sellers. What we have here are some of the statistics from that. Here is what we asked. We asked a series of questions about one specific week of the "New York Times" best-seller list. We asked them how many they bought. How much it cost. How many outstanding holds they have. Average cost per circ -- what we found -- we wanted to do two things. We wanted to know in raw numbers what they were spending. So in raw numbers, the largest public libraries are purchasing about 59 copies of each of the hard-back titles, about 2.4 million. And they also purchased about 19% -- 19 copies of the available e-book titles. Not all of the e-book titles were available to them, but about 1.2 million. You may already know, but public libraries generally are only about two percent of publisher sales. So, while we might think that we wield a big purse, we don't. So, we can't -- the argument that won't work with publishers is we have all of this money, now sell us your titles. Because if you don't, you're going to lose a lot of money. Well, they are going to lose about 2% which is not so much of their bottom line. It is not our best argument. Best argument is how we are good partners for them. So that aside, what we wanted to know how much we purchased and what the availability looked like in order to -- in order to up the purchase. We would have purchased a lot more, if the availability had been better, we would have purchased another half million in spending on e-books for that one week of best sellers. So in any week, there is going to be some flux. We could not say a half million every week, but we could say that it is a half million over a certain period of time. Another thing we wanted to do with this information was to hone in on one title to understand how that one title, how we were actually affecting consumer sales to libraries. We took "Gone Girl" on the best seller list, and here are some facts about that not on the slide. Libraries are generally paying about 50% more per E-copy of the title. Paying about 50% more to buy an E-copy of "Gone Girl" than you are of hard back. Circulation for the hard-back costs you about 7-8th of the cost of the e-book version. 3.83, and about 4.41 to circ an e-book version of that. While it is a difference, it is not a huge difference. Hard back, five circs per copy, e-book about six circs per popky. -- per copy. We did want to know how much -- how much of the publisher's sales were going to libraries. Hard back, total number of copies purchased was X-number and we were 7% of it. For the e-book X-number and we were less than 1% of it. While we represent sales, we don't -- I'm quickly running out of times. So, that is the research. That's the research we did in order to understand who the players were, what they had to offer and what we have to offer them. And here are some things that have happened since we published that January -- most of them we already have talked about before. Random House, Penguin merger is almost definitely going to go through because the major regulators have OKd it. Amazon -- good reads. Again, sales of tablets are continuing to rise, dedicated E-readers are slowing, but more and more people have access to something that they can read an E-book on. Big six publishers have some form of E-lending in place with libraries. That wasn't the case in January. Why does all of this matter? Why is this all important? Why are we doing this project? It is because we, you, we all believe in equal access and that that is is fundamental to public library missions and critical for ensuring all citizens have access. In my own head -- why does -- as E-reading continues to be more important, if you can't access something only published in E, and may be required reading for a class and you can only access is in E, you don't have equal access -- that is why we have been working to put this research into action with your colleagues. What we did with this initial research that we published in January was we took it to about 28 public library leaders in January in conjunction with mid winter to discuss the research and to advance strategies to ensure this access. It was not OCLC deciding this, but libraries present at the convening and libraries that we have talked to since that decided what strategies are important to continue to achieve this advanced access. And let's talk about what they are. All right. So, here are the strategies that have come out of all of this that librarians are currently working on. First influencing public policy with a focus on accessing readers' rights. What does that mean? What does it mean to influence public policy? This means legislation, or talking to legislators, making them aware of what is happening with e-books in public libraries with the inability to access them from publishers because of publishers either unwillingness to sell or selling at prices we cannot a for -- afford. The idea talking with legislators, making them aware of the issues, so they can possibly look into holding some sorts of hearings on the matter. As you guys know, there is know -- there is know for sale doctrine over E-material. Copyright is a little unclear. And changing any of these things programmatically through legislation could help us in order to gain equitable access to these things. A group of librarians working with legislators, some in Ohio who have had success talking to legislators to get this put in front of the right people to talk about holding herings -- hearings on these issues. This means that we have a lot of data as libraries and librarians about what people read. Now, we're not suggesting that we invade anybody's privacy. We are not suggesting that we give anyone access to anybody's, you know, reader information, but what we are suggesting is if we aggregate and -- we can give publishers very interesting information that can help them to understand how to sell their books. Okay. So, we can tell them that in Columbus, Ohio, people like to read mysteries. So, in Columbus, Ohio, maybe you should ship more mystery books to the bookstores there because that's what people are reading. Or in -- or as is the case with "Gone Girl," we can tell them how much we bought and how much of a percentage it was and help them understand how we partner with them in order to be a sales channel. Another one, litigation, just sue the publishers that are not selling books to libraries. Sue them. Another one is creating new value in the e-books supply chain. And that would be working, self-publishing is that something that is growing and it is very interesting. Especially with e-books. A lot of e-book best sellers are self-published. How do we as libraries work with people self-publishing? Work with authors, work with publishers to find audiences for their new books? How do we create value in the supply chain? Where do we come in there? I think libraries have a lot of possibilities in terms of Cree eighting value, in terms of opening up an audience and in terms of supporting self-publishing. All of those sorts of things. And then there is the idea of a common narrative. We talk about the e-book issue. What is it? Why is it important? Why is it important to libraries? Why is it important to the public? And in creating a script, if you will, that we can all read from the same script so that our patrons, our stakeholders, legislators and publishers understand what we're doing and why we think it is important. There is the idea of creating new partnerships with new people. So, above and beyond the big six. Can we create partnerships with the American association of publishers, Amazon, apple, in order to further this access. Who can we partner with that we're maybe not talking to now. To help us gain more access to more e-books. And then there is an idea of creating a common platform to access and download these e-books from. Now, I would argue this is a little off of the scope for what we're doing here. It is more along the lines of the scope of what the readers first group is doing. If you guys don't know about readers first yet, I think you should take a look at them at readersfirst.org. They are doing a lot of good work in terms of what happens to an e-book once you have access to it to make it less confusing to your patrons. Those are the strategies that we're working on. Not we, you, your colleagues are working on right now in order to make headway on these issues. So, we're going to see if at the end of the hour if everybody is still paying attention and if everyone would like to help me out by helping me to get your ideas on which of these strategies you think might be important. So, here is what we are going to do. You guys are going to use the text tool, which is up at the T at the top left of your -- you know that thing -- screen, of your screen. If you click on the T, you activate the text tool. On the next slide, we're going to -- two slides from now we will play a little game with the text tool. Locate the text tool and click on it and here is what we are going to do with it. Using the text tool, if you had $100 to spend on these strategies, how would you spend it? Okay. On the next slide, you will type with the text tool directly on these to divide the $100 among as many strategies as you would like. I'm asking you to do this because I want to put it in our final research. I want to know what you guys think is important so that we have all of the strategies here. And I want you to use your text tools. Click on the text tool -- somebody is already at it. Divide your $100 across this. You can put it all in one bucket. You can put it all in different buckets. Make sure that you click your text tool down on the text where nobody else has already clicked so that you are not writing on top of each other. Great. You guys are really good at this. I'm going to give you a couple of minutes to do that. No one has $500. But it is good to know that you would use $500, if you had it. Let's see. I will try to do some quick math here. I'm really great at math. So, it looks like we are putting a lot of our money into new value. Public policy , partnership -- that seems to be where most of the money is falling here. Not a lot for litigation. Okay. Looks like we slowed down. I want to really thank you for that. We have had a couple of other groups we have done this with and it is really important to us to try to fit this in to the final research to understand where the larger community -- what you think we should be doing. So, if you're interested, here is how it has gone before. Public policy has definitely be number one out of all. Creating new value has been number two. Common narrative has been number three. Data has been number four. New partnerships and common platform which are both in red because they are the newest strategy ideas which just came out of a webinar we did a couple of weeks ago. So they have not even been worked on as much. Number five and number six. And litigation is bringing up the rear, number 7, because we generally think that that is -- we, being you, not me, generally think that this is sort of a last-ditch effort if other things don't work. So, we would like to be partners, if we can, and not adversaries unless we have to in order to get these things done with the publishers. So, what's coming up next? If you want to follow this, what can you do to follow this to stay involved. As I said earlier, this research and -- the research and the survey and what's happened since then and information on all of the strategies and where they are, it is going to be published in the report that will be coming out for you all end of May, and that will be available to anyone who wants it. And we will get information out to folks on how to get ahold of that once we have it done. There is an opportunity for you to be involved in these strategy work groups. If there is one strategy that I talked about that you think I'd really like to help to move that forward, if you want to send me an email after this, and tell me which one it is, I will put you in touch with the people who are currently working on it. Like I said, everybody who is currently doing this, is a full-time working librarian. So, the more involved people they have helping them, the more, you know, the better it is going to be because everybody has a full-time job in addition to this. So, we need interested bodies on deck to help them with their work. And not to talk too much about readers first, but I've seen what they have been able to do. I am on their working group with a cast of volunteers. It is truly inspirational, the work that can happen with people committed to the strategies and committed to taking a little time to work out the strategies. Like I said, if you saw one that you think I would really like to become involved in this and do some work to help them on it, you can send me an email. My email address is up there. And I will be glad to put you in touch with the people who are doing the hard work to get this done. And we are at the top of the hour. I am so sorry that I had to rush through the end, but I want to thank you all for being here. Thank you for listening today and thank you for this chat. I'm looking forward to being able to read all of it as we conclude, and I'm going to go back to the voting slide and leave it on the voting slide, Rickey, so that you can all leave on that. And with that, I will just say thank you and turn it over to Jennifer Peterson, if she has any concluding remarks for today. >> Jennifer Peterson: Excellent, thank you so much Jennifer Pearson for your great work and for fielding all of those questions as they came through and to all of you for contributing to the conversation. I have to make a horrible confession that I just realized about two minutes ago that I forgot to record this session, which I haven't done in about five years. I am really sorry, Jennifer, but maybe we can do a reprize if we need to record it. But we have a captions that serve as a nice transcript. We will post those along with the chat and the great resources that you all contributed to the conversation, the archive page and stay tuned for more work from this great project that Jennifer has been working on and, again, thank you so much. And we look forward to seeing you at future events.