>> Hi, everybody. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for joining me for more than motivation Monday. It's Thursday, so it makes sense. Just a little bit about who I am and how I ended up here. I have a bachelor's from Carlton college in English, probably like many of you. I got my master of library and information science at kept state, and after library school, I started work as an adult services librarian at the worthington libraries. From there I worked at the Columbus metropolitan library as a manager, went back to worthington, and decided I didn't have enough to do so I should go back to school and get a Ph.D. So while I was a branch manager, I started working on a Ph.D. in managerial leadership in the information professions. Which is a real thing. Somebody asked what year I got my MLS. I think I graduated the end of 2004. So maybe we knew each other? I started working on my Ph.D. at Simmons, and in the middle of that, because again, it's not like I didn't have enough to do, I thought, gee, I should become a library director. The name of the degree somebody just asked in the chat box, is managerial leadership in the information professions, and I am sad to report the program doesn't exist anymore. So I got in a little blip and got this Ph.D. I went on to be a public library director, I was a director for seven years, and then I decided that I needed a new challenge, and so I am one month into my tenure as the director of library and information services at capital University. So worthington libraries is a three-branch system, Columbus metro is a large urban system, and the library where I was a director is small, single-branch library. So I've had experience with vastly huge and small staff sizes, so hopefully the things that we're talking about today will make sense for most of you. And that's how I am here now on the internet, oh, internet. Okay. So I want to start out by finding out why you work. If you would just -- this is not a trick question. Why do you get out of bed and go to work in the morning? If you would share in the chat box why you work. Maybe none of you work? I like to eat, right. Some love their job, it's fun, you have to pay student loans, pay bills, right? Awesome. You know, most people work because they have to pay their bills. Most of us would find something else to do with our time if we didn't have to work. These are great. Sometimes you just feel board. Now I want to think -- want you to think about this question in a slightly different way. Why do you work hard? Why do you work hard? Satisfaction of a job well done. You want to do a good job. Awesome. You value good work ethics. You have a sense of responsibility. What you do matters. Right? So there's a different -- we tend to conflate these things, why we work. There's a difference between why we work and what makes us work hard. And that's what motivation is. Motivation is the willingness to work hard. And what's interesting, we tend to, like, talk about employee morale, and morale is this nebulous thing that floats around out there. But there are four different dimensions of employee attitudes that I just want to draw our attention to. Because none of these things is working in a vacuum. No one aspect of your work life operates alone. So there's motivation, this willingness to work hard. That's what we're going to talk about today. But there's also satisfaction. That's how you feel about your job. That matters, right, when you go to work every day. Your commitment. Do you want to stay, do you want to go, that impacts your work. And what I wrote my disser is takings on is organizational citizenship. And that's when employees engage in behaviors that help each other, it's a social theory, and those behaviors advance the work of the organization. So citizenship is going above and beyond and helping others get their work done. So again, we're going to talk about motivation. But I also don't want to let go of the idea that there are multiple factors, any time we're talking about performance at work. So I'm assuming all of you are here because you want to work in an environment where your team members are motivated, if you're a supervisor, where your supervisorees are motivated. So when you think about a motivated employee, whether that's a colleague, or whether it's somebody you supervise, what does that mean to you? What does it look like? I should note your names are going to be stripped out of here when we do the -- Jennifer, right? You can write about people and don't use people's names, but your name will not be attached. >> That's great. >> Willingness to do any task. High energy. Happy. Steps out of their job description. Awesome. Goes above and beyond. They're engaged, right? We don't talk about this very much. But again, in case -- all these things are working together. You can rely on these people. So the point I want to make here is that you can see motivation. Sometimes we think about, we talk about, somebody has a bad personality, or a bad attitude. It's really hard to start quantifying either when you're coaching, or just when you're looking for employees, or thinking about how to be a good manager. But you can see motivation. And here's some of the ways that people who write about motivation talk about it. When you think about why people work hard, what does working hard look like? First, it's direction. When an employee comes in in the morning, they have a choice. What are they going to do today? So you might have an employee that wanders in, they have a little coffee, they walk to each desk, they chat with everybody. And you might have an employee who comes to work, they see the tasks they were working on yesterday, and they just get to it, right? So direction is choosing among the possible alternatives of things to do. And the important thing here is that the thing they engage in, actually the advancing -- the library, not just making coffee, which is also helpful, because I don't function without coffee, but you know what I'm saying. Persistence. How long do they stick to it? Do they do it for 15 minutes and go oh, Facebook! And work on something else? So a truly motivated employee will pick the thing to do that advances what needs to be done, and they'll stick with it. Now, of course we live in a multitafging world, and while we're sitting at a disk, we're going to get interrupted no matter what it is we do. So continuing motivation is this idea that if and when, because it's going to happen, somebody is interrupted, they're going to come back to that task, right? Intensity, how focused are they, are they easily distracted? At the end of the day, did they do a good job? Again, these things are all interconnected. You might have somebody that wanders around, talks to people, doesn't have particularly good direction, but does a really good job, right? So you have to decide, depending on what it is that they're supposed to be doing and working on, this is a pie chart. So what is the expectation for an employee that you have in any given job? But this gives you some language. When you start thinking about coaching, when you start thinking about, yeah, I want to -- we really need to work on this in our workplace, we're not good at this -- we're not good at intensity. We get really distracted, and so what are we going to do to help ourselves stay focused? I'm assuming you're here because you don't have it all figured out yet. And I will tell you that nobody has motivation figured out yet. So if you are looking for a rubric for how to motivate your employees by the end of this webinar, I'm sad to say I will not have it for you. But I will have some ideas and frameworks for you to work with. So what -- why are you here? What are some of the challenges you're facing when you're trying to coach your -- motivate the people you're supervising or even your teammates? Working together. Low energy. Yep. So this is interesting, somebody said apathy, which is an attitude, as well as core skills. So you've got both of those things. Burnout, absolutely. Different cultural backgrounds. Great. Short-staffed and everyone is tired. This is so pervasive right now. Right. I'm actually -- let's go here really quickly. I'm getting carried away. So we sort -- I'm going to change the slides around a bit. We talk about this when we talk about why we work hard. This sort of goes back to that attitude. Sort of, it starts to get us into value. So when you wake up in the morning, and you are actually really excited to go to work that day, yes, I'm going to leap out of bed, because I get to do -- what is it that you are doing that, when you wake up in the morning, you are so ready to get out of bed? What is happening at work? What are the tasks that you're doing, or what are the challenges, or what are the things you do? You get to work with the public. Why do you want to leap out of bed and get to your job? Collaboration. I hope some of you like to leap out of bed. Only two people like to leap out of bed. You get to do something different. People. Check things off the list. Yes. Accomplish things. M-hmm. Making the world a better place. So what I want to do with some of these thoughts is think about the fact that everybody is different. Look at the variety of reasons that people leap out of bed in the morning. You got one person who is like, super psyched to do a weeding project. And you have another person who is really jazzed by the people. And this is what makes motivation so challenging, because it's personal. What drives people, what makes them want to work hard is different, right? And this is a real challenge for managers. But sometimes you can just ask people what they love about their -- people aren't thinking about what motivates them. This -- you don't think, gee, what is motivating me today? But you can ask them what they love and you can tease out what are the things that make them want to get out of bed in the morning? So David McClelland has a theory, this is just one theory. Nothing that I'm telling you is like, this is the way it is, and this is the only way to think about it. Hey look, Jennifer put a thing on David McClelland, human motivation theory. Thank you, Jennifer. So this is just a theory, but it's one way to start thinking about this. Some people are driven by affiliation. They work hard because they love making those connections. They want to connect with their patrons, they want to connect with their colleagues, like that is what drives them. Some people are task oriented. You love making a list, you want to check off the list, you want to withdraw everything. So again, this is a pie chart. Nobody is just one of these things or another, and the other thing that's really interesting is these things can change over time. So in my case, I've been working in libraries for 12 years, and when I became a librarian, I loved the people piece. I wanted to make people's lives better, I wanted to make connections with people, and as I kept working, I realized something else that I loved was putting people in the right places to get things done. And power tends to have a negative connotation. But power orientation is really just the desire to be the person who moves the chess pieces, right? It's not -- it can be nefarious, but especially in libraries, it's not. So what drives you? What drives you? And you can be a mix of these things, right? The important thing is that you have to make sure that you are linking the right person with the right position. So if you think about this in your interview questions, think about this in the way you choose people for certain positions or certain opportunities. If you've got someone and they just love people, and you have a back room cataloger position, it's probably not a good fit. If they're in the back they're probably not going to get as much social action, interaction, if you have somebody that loves making lists, that loves checking things off, and you decide to put them in the teen room, that might be a little much. So we take people who are really good at their jobs as librarians and make them managers. So this is an orientation, right, are the people that you're making managers, do they have an orientation to wanting to move the chess pieces? Because if that's not what gets them out of bed in the morning, there may -- they may not be successful. So people like to do what they're good at. They want to work -- I'm speaking very quickly. I read it out loud, I'm sorry. I'm talking fast, I will talk more slowly. The point is that you want people to match the job that you're putting them in. People will do what they like to do. People will work hard at the things that they feel good doing, right? And you can't always change a position and what someone is doing to fit what their needs are. So that's something we're going to talk through a little bit, because I think that's where a lot of the challenges comes through. But this is where hiring matters. The first step in motivating employees is to put the right people in the right position. Right? You work hard because you want to. You work hard because the tasks you're doing give you satisfaction. So if you put someone in a position where those tasks aren't giving them satisfaction, there isn't much you can do to keep them motivated. So hiring is incredibly important. One thing I also want to point out here is, you know that bricklayer parable, there's a bricklayer and he's building a cathedral, and somebody comes over and asks what he's doing, and one bricklayer says I'm building bricks, and the other one says I'm building a wall, and one says I'm building a cathedral. We want people to feel like they're part of the big picture. But if you're going to hire a bricklayer, you should really want -- he should really want to lay bricks, right? So if you put somebody that is a big picture person into a job where the big picture is not what drives them, they're not going to be satisfied. So just keep that in mind as you're fitting people into these roles that sometimes you want somebody that loves shelving. And, yeah, they need to know how it contributes to the overall operation, but oh, what if you inherit people? We're going to get to that. Nepotism -- what do you mean, explain your question. So we're going to talk about what do you do with people who are perhaps in jobs, hiring people -- that is not something that I am going to address. If you are in a situation where you have to hire people as a favor to others, you got a bigger problem than motivation. Unfortunately I'm sorry if you're in that position. But we'll talk a little bit about what to do to -- for these folks you inherit. I'm dwelling on this because we tend to go gloss over hiring sometimes, especially when it comes to fit. Oh, no! I didn't push the slide. There. There's our fit matters slide. Sorry about that. Isn't it cute? What you want are nice little happy avocados. So now we're going to talk about the workplace factors that impact motivation. You just want to eat that slide. So let's talk about this. There's a theory called the two factor theory of motivation. This is just one theory. There is tons of writing about motivation. If it's something you're interested in, get out there on your academic search and go get it. So what he discovered in his research is that the things that make people satisfied and dissatisfied aren't necessarily the things that work as motivators. So if you take away the things that make someone dissatisfied, it doesn't necessarily lead to motivation. So this is where it gets interesting for managers. The things that make people dissatisfied are things like policies, security, supervision, working conditions, and pay. So pay is a little controversial, there's a lot of interesting things to talk about. So I'm going to do -- take one stance, but again, this is not like the stance on pay. The way I want you to think about pay is when you open your eyes in the morning, and do you leap out of bed and go to work because you make a certain amount of money? It can make you really dissatisfied, right, if you are not paid what you think is a fair wage for yourself, you could be dissatisfied, but let's say you were, so these are your hygiene factors. These are the things that influence dissatisfaction, but they're not on a scale from dissatisfied to motivated. These are on a scale from dissatisfied to satisfied. So the point I'm trying to make is, if you become satisfied, let's say you get the salary you think, I'm not -- hygiene factors, I think it's just -- hold on. I think it's just like, these are the things that are -- not about cleanliness, but it is about environment. It's not the work itself, it's really about the environment, does that make sense? It's more -- it's less about the position and the work that's being done. So if you are paid what you think is a fair wage, you're not going to leap out of bed to do that. That's the distinction. It can create tremendous dissatisfaction, but even if you have the best policies and great pay, it's not going to necessarily lead to motivation. What does lead to motivation? These are a different set of factors. All of those things that you listed -- exactly. Unhigh general I can environment, pretty dissatisfying. Those are the things that are -- we're going back to the slide at the beginning. Motivation is working in conjunction with a lot of other things that work, and dissatisfaction is really important. So it's not that I'm saying ignore those things, yeah, you gotta fix those things. But if you're thinking about motivation specifically, you're thinking about building the job. So here you've got variety and challenge. The things you were talking about up there, you get to help people, you get to try new things, you get to finish projects. You might have the opportunity to advance. Which if you are a supervisor, sometimes you have the ability to help folks with that, and sometimes you don't. You can reward people, right? So telling people they've done a great job, like you get out of bed and you're like, I've done a great jorks I'm awesome! And then hopefully you have opportunities for growth. So what does opportunities for growth actually look like? As you're trying to build a motivated work force, here's some things that you can do as a supervisor. A lot of this has to do with the way you talk about positions with folks, and the way that you respond to them. So task identity. This is a -- if you read Jennifer's -- if you read the WebJunction landing page for this, there was something on Daniel pink's -- his thoughts about motivation, which are autonomy, masteries, and purpose. It's another way to think about those things, and developing an environment in which people feel like they can gain those things. So task identity, completing a task from beginning to end. It goes way back to the assembly line. Do we give people the chance to do that. Task significance, does their task have a significant effect on others? And this is something that I think a lot of us don't communicate well enough about. So I admit I am guilty, I have said the words "oh, it's just CIRC." What? That's terrible! The library doesn't work without CIRC, do we talk to our staff like that? Do we remind them that what they do significantly impacts their peers and not only that, it impacts the work of the library, right? So how often and how do we really get people to realize the value of their work? Especially as supervisors? Do we get them to do a lot of things? Somebody mentioned -- I'm going to take a little drink. Somebody when they were talking about what gets them out of bed in the morning, what makes them work hard, is that they get to try new things. So are we building in the opportunity for people not to have monotony? Can you make those values and goals clear? Can you make those tasks interesting? Do we give them the capacity? Somebody also mentioned, just don't have the skills that you need. So how do we do that as supervisors and make sure that people are getting the skills they need and that they're able to challenge themselves and work with others? Because those are all of the things that people need in order to feel like this is a job in which I want to work hard. I'm going to stop right there and ask if there are any questions. One thing that came to mind -- >> one thing that came to mind whether you talk about the assumption that CIRC, it seems like maybe those tasks or roles that are presumed more static in the library environment, like CIRC, perhaps, there's an assumption that you can't as a manager, maybe you can't change the way it's done. There's policies in place, which again that's the hygiene factor. So I think the trick is thinking about those things that we assume are sort of static that can't be changed, but really there are ways to apply motivate these motivator tack task force to those presumed static jobs. So I think it's really a lot about thinking -- looking at those roles or those individuals maybe who might be stuck, and I know you're going to talk about that, but thinking about what -- how can you flip the assumptions around their job being static into one that could have more motivating factors included. >> Right. That's great. That gets me off on something, but I forgot to say, so one of the -- cross training is great. One of the interesting things is horizontal job loading. Sometimes a verse is veteran ca. horizontal job loading, you just give people more of the same, because you think, gee, I need to challenge this person, so I'm going to keep giving them this task they're doing, but it's not a stretch for them, it's just more work. So thinking about the ways that you could give someone more autonomy. So if you think about cross training, if you think about -- let's think about your shovelers. Because it's a pretty rote task. But do you have a lot of rules about which carts are supposed to shelf first, which floor, and how they determine that? Or do they have some sense of autonomy over the method for the way they shovel? So that may or may not work in your particular library, but just thinking about ways you can give someone not just more work, but more work that might actually be meaningful. And it also comes back to fit. And this is part of the inherited employee thing. Some people are just in the wrong job. Some people are just in the wrong job. So what Hertzberg wanted to talk about in another aspect, which we'll talk about right now, is the difference between a reward and a punishment. Getting out from behind the desk is is a challenge. Can you expand on that quickly before I get into rewards? I'll start talking about this next thing, and -- >> I think it was in context to what -- how do you think about -- how can you, for instance, make the CIRC staff experience create motivation. >> Can I mention one more thing? The other piece that strikes me is when you talked about the hygiene factors, that a lot of times I'm sure a lot of people on the call, if they're here trying to think about as a manager how to impact motivation, sometimes in your role as a manager, you can't -- you can't change those hygiene factors for your staff, but you can change these motivator factors for your staff, but I will give an example, in a webinar we did on excellent customer service, every time -- a while ago we had an attendee who said that at their library, the Halifax Public Library, they came up with an initiative called today I bent a rule that really looked more closely at policies and how policies were limiting their user experience, their customer experiences. So even those sort of more hygiene factors can also be adjusted a bit too. So I'd say -- and I know that some of the working -- working through, in the learner guide, there's sort of a process of, what if those hygiene factors could be reviewed or adapted, as well as looking where to move folks forward with the motivator factor? So I'm going to put a link to that article, just so we have it on our event page as well. Thanks, Rachel. >> That's perfect. Motivating people to get out from behind the desk, one of the things I wanted to get back to you again is fit. So sometimes the job changes, right, so something that was accessible before becomes not, the expectation. So that's coaching. But at the end of the day, remember the things that get you out of bed and the reasons you work hard, you don't do those because somebody necessarily coached you to. You don't do those because you're going to get a reward for them, necessarily. So people have to want to move themselves. So you are trying to create an environment in which they're in a position where the things they need to do are generally the things they want to do. And sometimes there's nothing you can do about that. So we'll get to sort of coaching people. But that's -- most people, most people who work in libraries, at least most of the ones I know, love the reasons they're at work. So can you tie the value of the work that they're doing to what it is that you're asking them to do? And then sometimes you run into this job description issue, sometimes you run into union issues. So if it were easy, if you could just do anything you wanted all the time, this wouldn't be hard. So within those confines, within those confines, how can you -- even if it's just communication, or as Jennifer said, maybe there's some of these hygiene factors that you can actually address that may lead to either increased satisfaction or to people feeling like what they're doing is contributing to the larger whole. So one of the things that Hertzberg also talked about, and this is sort of a funny example, but let's say you get a new dog, right? And you want the dog to run 50 yards. There's two ways to do that. You can maybe stand behind him and go BOO! And scare the dog, and the dog runs, or you can stand? Front of the dog with a biscuit. And the dog will run to you because he wants the biscuit. So this is sort of the -- I'm going to -- on the first slide when we started talking about this, we had the carrot and the stick. This is the carrot and the stick. In both of those cases, the dog is either -- moves because he's scared, or he moves because he wants a biscuit. He's not moving because he wants to move. You're moving him because he wants to move. And there are times when using rewards and using sometimes you have to tell someone they've got to do a thing, but I just want to draw that distinction between having somebody do it because they want to, and having them do it because there is some external factor. So sometimes we do use external rewards, so what are some of the external rewards that aren't about, like, I feel a deep sense of purpose. What are some of the things you see or that have worked for you that have worked to get people moving forward? Chocolate! Yes! Food. I will do anything for a doughnut. Flexible scheduling. Perfect. Yep. So you're recognizing people. Not only are you giving them a thing, you're telling them thank you. That is huge. Employee -- yep. Peer recognition is awesome. Starbucks in your library. So I just want you to take a look at this stuff. This isn't expensive, right? It's not necessarily money. I'll go back to the fact that people should be paid fairly for the work they do, but money isn't necessarily what will get them to work harder. So you can do good pay and benefits, you can get people Starbucks or gift cards, and that's fun, right? People like that. The chance to develop relationships do they get to be on the committee, do they get to participate in a planning opportunity. Making them feel like their job is secure. Those are all things that -- yep, opportunities for professional development, exactly. To there are things that help drive people forward. Most of what we're talking about, though, like the thank yous, giving them more responsibility, that really gets into intrinsic, right? That drives you from the inside. So you're fostering that internal sense of motivation. It's not really a biscuit, and it's not really standing behind them yelling boo, it's helping them feel a sense of responsibility. They're being recognized. That's good, include all staff in your weekly and monthly newsletters. Is everybody involved? Does everybody feel like they're a part of the team? And again, people like to do the things they're good at, or they like to learn new things and challenge themselves in the ways they feel like they can see themselves grow. So are you painting the picture that they can move in the direction you want to move in? The way that Hertzberg describes this, he's got the stand behind and yell boo, and the biscuit, and what he said is, you can keep doing that, but it's like, you have to keep recharging the battery yourself as a supervisor, as a team member. What you want is to find the ways people are charging their own batteries. I'm going to read this question. How do you address a culture of low performance, lack of in0 vairks doing the minimum and not changing things? So the presentation that I gave last year was about building a healthy organizational culture. I could talk to you for an hour about that. But what I will tell you is that culture is driven bite director. That is not something you can delegate. And unless you have a director or someone in a position of authority, saying, we are going to move this organization forward, we're going to address these things, it is really hard. It is really hard to do. It's very hard for a front line staff member, if you're in a branch, and you have a great branch manager, and you have -- again, autonomy, the responsibility to take that on in your department, you can certainly do that. And maintaining your own morale is hard. It's just hard. Leading from the middle is -- with culture it's hard. Because if you try to take the lead in the middle and the people above you won't support you, it makes it very hard to make that culture change go organizationwide. So you can absolutely do that if you have a team. Communicating, giving people responsibility, creating a culture -- let's just go to the next slide, because we're going to talk about this. So when you're using reward as a motivator, so help set goals. Are they feeling self-responsibility? Do they feel autonomy? Do they feel like they're part of the decision making process? And then Frankly, when it comes to people who aren't -- who are doing the minimum, if you are their supervisor, it's the uncomfortable part about having a conversation about performance. Setting expectations. And you can talk about culture, so if you think about the second bullet point here, where work -- reward can be for more than job tasks. When we are -- are you telling people when they are doing something for the organization. Are we acknowledging when people do things that -- when they build their skills, are we acknowledging when they've been helpful to others? So we need to start thinking more broadly about the ways that we reward people and the things that we talk about. The morale issue, you're playing the long game. I'm delving into culture change, but any time you're talking about changing a culture, you are playing the long game. So give yourself permission. Yep, exactly, when staff see other staff not working, it's demoralizing. So you have to -- maybe you can have conversations, maybe you have that kind of relationship, this is happening in my department, we're doing great, but it is really hard for us to keep this up, when we see other people aren't pulling their own weight. I'm a little distracted. Culture is the long game. One thing to keep in mind, be patient with yourself, and give yourself enough time to make those changes, otherwise it will just feel like you're not getting enough done. Rewards and motivators. One of the interesting things that happens, we talk about performance-based pay sometimes, and you get to the end of the year, and you've done your work, and you get the 3% raise, or whatever it is that says you have done a great job. Do you feel like that will make you work harder next year? Or do you feel like you earned that money, you earned that. So the -- what happens with performance-based pay, and systems like that, I'm not saying they're bad, you earned the money, right? But it's not a motivator, because it's not making you work to the future. So you can do this well, you can do this well. But it means setting rewards based on clear expectations that increase performance, actually leads to those increased rewards, and that they're timely. You do a thing, you get the reward. So you're associating, I've done this thing, I get the reward. When you get the reward 12 months from now, you're no longer associating it with whatever it was that happened back when, whatever it was happened. So the reason that I think we like to think about, we're going to give something a mug, or we're going to give them a small amount of money. So it's not about -- listen to what their passions are. What is the fit. What is the fit. Are they doing what gives them satisfaction and value? Can you do that for them? What about pay increases that aren't tied to performance, but just longevity. Do you work harder because you're going to get COLA? Probably not. So the cost of living increase isn't about motivation. It's about recognition and reward for past work. So this -- these are -- they're funny distinctions, but we tend to mix them together. We say we're motivating you, when actually we're acknowledging work you've done before, or rewarding you for past work. So you can set up these rewards, it's just a complicated -- if what you want is motivation. So the last thing I want to get into, opportunities to set -- exactly. That's exactly it. I think we had -- back on this slide, right. It's somewhere. Give them the opportunity to say -- especially, give them the autonomy to set their own goals. That's exactly what you should be looking at. So career stage. How many of us have changed what motivates us throughout the arc of our careers? It's not just us, it's all the people that we're working with. So at the various stages of someone's career life, you want to start thinking about how -- what drives them, what makes them work hard has changed. So you can even start thinking about this when you're doing that fit match. Am I bringing somebody in that is working hard because of the task that we can provide them? Are we talking about the things that are -- that -- the important aspects of this job so we make sure we bring the right person in? When we on-board them, are we talking about how valuable the work that they're going to do is to the organization? Are we talking about the fact that others rely on them? Do we give them an opportunity to meet people, to develop those social bonds, so they do feel like they're connected to the larger whole? Once you get going, there's -- there's recognition, it's getting people to set their own goals, there's advancement, professional development. It's saying, you have done this exceptionally well. It's that recognition. So this is a great question. How do you get an employee to tell them what motivates them? You can't. If you ask them straight up, it's like saying, what's your leadership style? Most people don't sit around and think about this, right? Ask them what they love about their job. Ask them what it is that makes them really excited when they come to work during the day. Ask them what though really don't love. And don't pun usual them -- don't punish them for -- they're going to tell you they hate pulling books or they really don't like something. So you want them to be honest with you. But you can't -- asking them what they love, what gives them joy at work, what their favorite -- last week, what is the best thing that happened to you? They're going to tell you, and you will tease out, okay, the best thing that happened to that person was that we did everything on their list. That's a task person. The best thing that happened to them was that they helped the kid find a book. So if you start asking them in different ways, you'll start to build that picture. So these are the employees that somebody had mentioned before, sometimes you have employees who are just like been in their jobs a while, and they've plateaued. Sometimes called entrenched employees, sometimes called pa toed employees, and you can continue to motivate these folks, but they've been there. They've done that. They sort of are where they are. So what do you do with them? There's two different types of plateau. You may have an employee that's, they've made it up the rung, your organization isn't that big, there's nowhere for them to go. So they're just tapped out. Or it could be that this person is boird. Like, they've been there, they've done that, they've done it all. So there's four types of plateaued employees. One is called passively plateaued, and those are the folks I think that one of you mentionedded earlier, low motivation, they're discouraged, their inertia has come to a stop, they're disenchanted. And there are still folks that are motivated, looking for meaning and challenges, you just let them go, right? They may have been there 50 years, but they're just rocking out. Partially plateaued, a lot of their work is boring, but they get some pet projects, they're fine, they're not really disruptive. Then you have the pleasantly plateaued people. They just want the status quo. They want to be left alone, they like working, but they really don't want to do anything else. So one of the questions for you is, at what point is this kind of plateaued employee problematic? It might be, as one of you talked about, when they are setting a bad example. When they're making other people feel like they're working really hard, and this person isn't, and they're not seeing any difference in the way that person is recognized or rewarded. Plateau-tivation, this is -- I thought I'd make that. What can you do? Go back to cross training. If you've got somebody that's plateaued, is there any way to give them a new experience? A challenge, or an expansion -- an expansion of their position through cross training, job rotation, can they become more involved, can they be put on a committee, can they be part of some sort of planning process? Ask them to teach someone else. So either they're doing the cross training because they're going somewhere else, or they're helping to train new people. Most of the time -- okay, so you keep doing the same things over and over. It's what their job is. So you're going to run into that with these folks and other folks. So if the job is the same over and over, unless that person is highly driven by that, highly driven by that task, almost every employee is going to get burnt out with, that right? So what are the opportunities for giving them more autonomy, giving them more responsibility, getting them involved in decision making? Serving as mentors. Please serving as mentors, sending them to professional development, see, you guys are predicting everything we were going to talk about. What do they like to do? What would they want to do? You can see if you can do these things, or you provide supportive outplacement. And that basically means, this is no longer a good fit. So -- and that's hard, and it's complicated, and it takes time. But sometimes for all of those other people, for all of the people who are watching and are seeing maybe a poor example, it's better for everybody. So this is is a great question -- what do you do with an employee who is given the autonomy and is afraid of it? When I started at my job as a director, I replaced somebody who was there for 28 years, and he was a top-down leader. Nobody got to make decisions, everything came through the office, you couldn't even call maintenance without calling through the office. So I wanted all the supervisors to have master keys so they could, you know, walk around the building. I wanted them to have master keys, and nobody wanted master keys. I thought, hey, I'm giving you responsibility, I'm giving you authority. Take it slow. Take it slow. And as you do it, they have to become -- they have to trust you. It's really about trust, because if they don't trust they're not going to get in trouble, so the first time something bad happens, do you come down on them like a hammer, or do you say, you know what? This didn't go quite the way we wanted it to go, let's have a conversation about next time. So again, all of this stuff takes time. Frankly -- don't change anything for three months when you're a manager. Depends how bad it is. But generally, right, have those conversations. Make sure -- if an employee who has never had autonomy is afraid, do they trust you as their leader? How do you -- you need them to trust you before they're going to trust they're not going to be in trouble. So a lot of it is that initial relationship building. Some people -- okay, good. Some people don't want to be in power. Go back to that affiliation, power task. Some people think they just want to do the thing in their office. Are they a good fit for your organization? This goes back to culture. It goes back to what's expected in the position. So sometimes you people might not want that sort of authority, but if you need them to, if that's the culture you're trying to build, you have to work with them slowly, and if they're not going to play in that -- in your ballpark, those are conversations that need to be had over time. A lot of it I think comes from trust and comes from old habits. Didn't want to be a librarian in charge. It's trust. A lot of that comes back to trust. And we're starting to get to the end here. I know want to save about 10 minutes for questions. Punish for mistakes. Right. In this job I had people who told me they never went into the director's office until they were getting yelled at. They're not going to want autonomy authority, they're not going to want to be involved in decision making because they think they're going to be yelled at. A lot of this is conversations and trust. Won you get to know them, you learn what makes them happy at work. What drives them, what gets them out of bed in the morning, what was the best thing that happened to them. But they won't start sharing that -- yep, and -- so this is my plug based on some of the work that I did in my dissertation. Most people, their primary determine nanlt of their experience at work is their relationship with their direct supervisor. You are a direct supervisor, I know I said that before about building culture, but if you are someone's direct supervisor, you can really, really develop somebody's experience at work, and if you want to build the culture that you want, you have -- and if you want to build the environment in which people feel self-motivated to get work done, I cannot stress enough the importance of thinking about that, like critically thinking about it and taking it on if you supervise other people. I know this was a ton, and I apologize because you tend to get really excited and talk really fast. So -- 89 and slowing down. Okay. So here's, this is interesting. I'm going to dig into this really quickly. Unfortunately she has to work. But does he have to work for you? That's a hard choice, I don't want to be in that position where I'm having that conversation. But that's your level of tolerance. So what are you going to do? When you go back to work and you think about your teammates, when you think about your superviseees, what are some of the ways that you are either going to think about motivating them differently, or what are the things you're going to do? Another thought for your 89-year-old shoveler S. there another position in the library? Maybe shelving isn't your thing, but you need somebody in tech services who can do -- put the stickers on the books, you know, sometimes, again, that's sort of new expansion, new challenge. Talk more. Awesome. I'm -- I hope I'm shelving books at 89. Exactly. Move to a different -- awesome. I want to come work for all of you. Great. Thank you. You know, just to sort of wrap up, have fun with this. Have fun with your jobs. What we do is awesome. What we do matters. And it is so easy, we are so stressed for time and money, and resources, that sometimes we have to step back and remind ourselves that what we do is fun, and it truly makes a difference in people's lives. So give yourselves a breather, give yourselves a pat on the back for what you do every day, because it is hard. But it's also fun. And it's really rewarding. I am the tiny potato, and I believe in all of you U. you can do this, what are your questions? I'll wait here and see if questions come through. >> I'll post the link again. I can't tell you how much through many of the projects we've worked on, and the presenters we've had, in terms of not necessarily -- I know there's often one or two staff that maybe are really taking all your time. When there's a project -- when there's an effort as an organization or as a team to really look at changing your culture, your, you know, making it a culture of learning, and yes, we do have presentations, I put a link to one that Jamie Carter did really focused on, how do you create a culture of learning as an organization or as a team? And what we've seen happen in -- I know in Jamie's organization, is those folks that were resistant really started to come around when the teamworked together on the effort. So it doesn't all fall on your shoulders as the manager or the director, rather, you're building that accountability across a team, maybe it's going to take two or three years to really shift it, but I think -- and the other -- that's for posting the other webinar, Jamie did it on self-directed -- it really ties into this motivation. How do you create self-direction around their learning, whether it's new skills, or new culture, that that's another -- and it really is probably one of our all-time favorite web narms, I know Rachel has built on some of Jamie's work too. >> Do you want me to get to some of these questions? >> Yes, please do. >> I am actually not a morning person, you would think that, but it's just all -- jump out of bed admit night or whatever. Changing culture -- so I had 25 staff, I finally got it to about 35 staff, it took me five years, just to get it going. I would say it wasn't until seven years when we really hit our stride. So it can take a decade. It can take -- how many layers you have, how entrenched is the issue, how much staff turnover do you have. But I would say it took me about five to six years to be like, all right, we are rocking out. How do you know when it's a slump? That's a conversation. If you have been having -- if you haven't been building the relationship with your team, and your team members, you can say, hey, you know what? I don't feel like you've been yourself lately. Is in something that we can do here? Are you bored, or -- what's going on? It could just be a conversation or you just might know, managers sometimes know that something isn't right. But typically I would approach it as a conversation, not say, you've been really slacking. Your performance is really gone off the deepened. But openly, can you tell me about -- I've noticed this, can you tell me if something is going on, do you need more resources. I would do it as a conversation. Young directors, older staff -- I don't know anything about that. I was 28 when I became a library director. Here's what I'll tell you. The reality is you you have to be right. The reality is, you have to believe in what you're doing, bring people on board, get them to have conversation was people, be honest and transparent as you go through the process. They're not going to trust you, and they're not going to believe in you until you you've started to do things that actually work. So it is so hard, it is emotionally hard, it is work hard, but you will do well. You will do good things, and then people will say, oh, especially when the patrons are like, oh, we love that. And they're like O. the patrons love it, it mutts be all right. You keep doing your thing. Staff vote on the best display. I love it. Organizational change. That's hard. And it depends -- I think a lot of it has to do with transparency and honesty. It is okay to say, like, I know this is hard to acknowledge that fear to acknowledge this is going to be disruptive, and in the end to acknowledge you're letting go of things. So you might get a great new director, but you're going to be letting go of tradition and letting go of some other stuff. So I think all of that is just being open and contributing, and feeling like their emotions are being valued. >> We're just about at the top of the hour. Maybe you can go to the next slide. >> Dealing with someone who may be motivated but looks like they want to be somewhere else at all times. That's coaching. I observe this happened, I observed this interaction with this other person. What -- let's see if we can transition to this and give an example. So you just have to be specific. Potatoes, yeah! Thanks, everybody. This was fun. I'm going to go to Pennsylvania now. >> Just a reminder, Rachel's provided her email, you can touch base with her and I'd say we'll be sure and add -- there have been other resources that have come to mind during the session, we'll be sure to add all of that to the event page as well. Thank you so much, Rachel. >> You bet. >> Such an inspiration to hear you and listen to you, and yes, we all wish we could work with you, honestly. >> You never know, I might be hiring. >> There you go. Just a reminder that I will send an email to you all once the recording is available, and as you leave the room, we're going to send you to a short survey. We'd really appreciate your feedback. We'll provide it to Rachel and it also helps us guide our ongoing programming, so thanks so much for taking that time. And thank you to BethA for her support and our captioner today. And you all have an excellent day, and keep up the amazing work you're doing. Thank you for all you do for your staff, and your communities.