First, I'm going to welcome our presenter today. I'm so excited to welcome Rachel Rubin. She serves as the director at the Bexley Public Library in Ohio and serves as an ALA at-large. Rachel, I am so excited that you're here to share your great wisdom and practical knowledge related to organizational citizenship. Welcome, Rachel. >> Rachel Rubin: Thank you, Jennifer. Thank you, WebJunction, for hosting a webinar on this topic. Can everyone hear me? >> Jennifer Peterson: Yes, we can. >> Rachel Rubin: Okay, great. This is my first webinar, so thank you for being patient with me when I ask questions like, can you hear me? Just a little bit about me -- oops, I'm already having webinar issues. Just a little bit about me. Like many of you, I was an English major. I graduated from Carlton college, which is in Minnesota. Today, we're going to talk about organizational citizenship which started in library school. I went to library school at Kent state. I thought I wanted to be an academic librarian and ended up working at Worthington library outside of Columbus, Ohio. I had some great mentors there. Some people that I really looked up to as managers and that really peeked my interest. I was really interested in management and I got the opportunity to move to Columbus metropolitan library as an assistant manager two years after I started in library. I'm sure many of you went directly to library school, directly into management because you had a degree or you were working as a librarian. For not a very long amount of time before you moved into management. I ended up going back to Worthington libraries to manage a branch so after being in libraries for four years, I was supervising 55 people, as a branch manager. Some I started to really see the difference between the skillsets of being a strong, amazing librarian and a really strong, amazing manager and I was interested in that and howing management helps things function well. So I decided to pursue a Ph.D. in managerial relationships. Of course, it's a great idea when you start a Ph.D. program to apply to be a library director and try to finish the Ph.D. while working as a library director. That's what I did. I've been a library director for six and a half years so this presentation is sort of a mix between what I studied for my dissertation, which was focused on organizational behavior, and what I've learned now of being a library director and the three or four years I had before that of being a library manager. Normally in the slide, I end up -- I end up with a picture of the state or the city or whatever that I'm presenting in. Again, this is my first webinar, so we are on the internet and at this point, I'm usually looking at people. I'm going to look at the internet. Jennifer, I'm turning back to you to talk about annotation tools. >> Jennifer Peterson: Excellent. To you want to go ahead and go to that next screen and I'm going to give you all access to our annotation tools. To find those, you can go to the marker at the top left corner of your view, go half-way down the annotation menu to the square. Click on the arrow to the right of the square and go down to the checkmark and once you've got it open, feel free to use this slide to practice. Good. It looks like folks have the checkmark handy. Excellent. Perfect. I'll ask them to pause their checkmarking until we go to the slide where you're asking for their participation. So, pause, everyone. >> Rachel Rubin: Okay. I'm advancing. Okay, excellent checkmarking. Look, you guys -- I don't have to ask the question. So, what's your role? I guess I did ask the question. Okay. So, the reason I'm asking this question is that a lot of what we're talking about is going to fall under the responsibility of directors and managers and supervisors. So, some of you might -- who are checking, either might be involved in HR in your libraries and that's a different animal than being a frontline staff person because you do have a lot of influence on how HR is handled. We have a circle. I'm assuming circle is manager/supervisor. So, okay. Is everybody checkmarked? So, it looks like we have a majority of mangers and supervisors and next is director and next is neither. >> Jennifer Peterson: Don't worry about it. We'll take care of it. We'll privately chat with that person. >> Rachel Rubin: Okay. I'm advancing the slide. So I want to first sort of start with the big concept of what is organizational culture? So a more sort of formal definition is that organizational culture is a shared set of assumptions, beliefs and behaviors. It's the way we do things around here. Without talking about specifics, would you use your little checkmark and indicate on this scale if you think your organization has a well-defined culture or not. Okay. So, it looks like most of you are in organizations that -- it's not really clear what the culture is and some of you have very clearly defined cultures and unfortunately, there is a green checkmark that is very sad and does not have a very well-defined culture. But what this sort of shows you is that cultures is not something we tend to think about or talk about as managers and directors, it just sort of happens. Think about creating culture intentionally. Oops, I'm sorry. I clicked away. I'm sorry if you hadn't checked yet. When you were answering that question, what were you thinking about? This, you should type into the all participants box. Jennifer's going to pull some of the examples. What are some examples of your organization's culture? What does it feel like? What does it look like? How does it manifest? I think people can type in the box here. We've always done it this way. Perfect. So, you do things by the rules. This is how we do it. Holiday party, that is a great example. Uh-huh. Wild west, boy, that's got to be exciting. Some of these are great. Great customer service. We tell stories, we're open to change. Yep, can be good. A culture can be good. A culture can be bad. So, it looks like there's a really wide variety. So you have some of these that are saying we're very rigid and protocol-driven and others say we're compassionate, innovative, focused on customer service. Great, thank you. There are probably some of you are sitting there thinking, I don't know. What is culture? What does that look like? Culture can manifest in a couple of different ways. The dress code. Do you work in a place where you can where jeans every day or people tend to be very buttoned up or dressed up? It could be values. Is it important for leaders to book acceptable? Do you work in a place where the assumption or the mental model is that when we make decisions, we do it together. Or, is the mental model when we make decisions, the supervisors sit in a room and decide for us? Those are examples or manifestations of culture. So, the next question is, how did you learn those things? Yes, I like that place. So, when you were new to your organization or right now when you folks join your organization, how do they learn this is the way things are done around here in your library? [LAUGHTER] Oh, somebody has a cultural statement. That's fascinating. Clearly, that library has really thought about what culture means. Word of mouth. Yep. New employee training. Observation. Osmosis. Osmosis, yes. Policies and procedures. Buddy system, mentors. So, here's what's interesting about learning culture is that it is most often learned through role modeling or osmosis. There's some formal training, as some of you are saying. It looks like -- so, what's really interesting about culture is that what is done, is far more important than what is written. So we can try to embed -- we can try to embed culture in our policy and proseeming Rs by saying, there's no grace period for being late. Right? You're a new employee and you notice that regularly, employees are coming in late and nothing happens. The culture there is that's the way things are done. It doesn't matter that it's written in the policy manual. People are late. Or, if you come in on your first day and you meet with the director and the director says, I have an open-door policy. We want to hear from all levels of the organization, stop in any time. Then you notice that no one goes to the director's office. So what is said, what is written, is less important than how people model behavior. So I want you to think about that as we work through this, that what we're talking about is creating cultural change. You have to codify that sometimes. You do have to write it down and have it formal. I love the idea of having a cultural statement. Somebody mentioned that. It has to be acted out on a day-to-day basis. So, I'm going to go ahead and -- not have an intermonologue. So, the goal of having a healthy organizational culture is to lead to a healthier organization. One of the things I started working on, we developed a leadership session. We were in the same Ph.D. program, the managerial leadership. We started talking about, what's the point? Why do they work to develop a supportive and respectful culture and what does that mean? This is his and my definition. This is not an official definition of what a healthy organization is. It carries out its missions, improves, financially sustainable and most importantly, for what we are talking about today, it mains a supportive and respectful culture in which employees are willing and able to perform at their highest level. So one of the points here is that when you're talking about people and building culture, the purpose is to make your organization successful. These aren't operating in a vacuum and it's really important to balance what you're trying to build with your folks and how does that impact the work of your organization? At the end of the day, though, the people matter. The people matter in getting the work done. The organization cannot be successful unless the people in it are successful. And here's what I want to start breaking down. We talked about what culture is, generally. Who is a director, who is a manager, who is not any of these things. If you are a director, it is your responsibility to determine and set the culture. That cannot be delegated. So, I would encourage you to take the step back, if you're a director, and think about what kind of culture do we want to create here together and then enforce it. If people at the frontlines or middle managers, they want to build and develop a culture, if a director doesn't give the resources and support to make that happen, it's really, really hard to do. Directors, you take this on. This is your mantle to set and provide resources to develop the culture that you want to build. That said, the primary determinant is their relationship with their direct supervisor. We vastly underestimate the impact, the role of middle managers. [LAUGHTER] your relationship that -- your relationship with the person that you interact with the most, typically your direct supervisor is the person who's going to influence how you feel about work. So if you're thinking about being a manager, if you are a manager, you are critical. What you do is critical. The relationships that you build with your staff, the way you support your staff, you are critical. I want to make a plug to any HR folks out there, any directors out there. We tend to say, you're a manager now, to middle managers. Sorry, water break. We throw people into those positions and we don't give them the skills and tools they need to truly be supportive, empowering, resourceful, really good at giveing feedback. Really good at coaching. We assume that they'll figure it out. These are the folks who are the real linchpins in our organizations so we need to prepare and support middle managers. Okay. We're back to -- [LAUGHTER] -- annotation tools. Jennifer? >> Jennifer Peterson: There's a little marker at the top left corner on the slide. It will open the annotation menu. Go halff-way down to where there should be a square. If you have found the checkmark, it should be a checkmark still. You'll see there's a checkmark underneath it and feel free, again, to test on this slide here. Get out your checkmarks. Excellent. Perfect. All right. I'll let you test. Five more seconds and then hold your checkmarks so Rachel can set up the next question we have. have. [LAUGHTER] all right, Rachel. >> Rachel Rubin: I'm a little concerned about the definition of checkmark. [LAUGHTER] we have -- look, you're answering my question. So, satisfaction and performance. True or false, more satisfied employees are more productive employees. I have -- we have a square. We're thinking outside the box. Okay. No one's doing it. All right. Okay. So, this is the first time ever in the history of me showing this slide that no one has clicked on the false box. You're going to have to wait for us to talk about this. This is let's think about this, satisfaction and performance. Okay. I'm going to move to the next slide. But I want everybody to note, we are 100% true. So, we talk a lot about morale when we talk about employee attitudes, when we talk about healthy work culture. What's interesting is morale is sort of nebulous. What is that? What I want to focus on are these discrete and identityifiable things. We are associated it with one or a combination. Satisfaction is an affective condition. How do you feel about work? That can change. It can change, you know, over the span of a year. Satisfaction is a feeling. Commitment is your desire to stay with the organization. Is this a place you see yourself being in the future? Which is, again, distinct from motivation. Which is the willingness to work hard. We're going to spend citizenship, which we don't talk about in libraries. You shouldn't feel like you've missed some sort of memo. This is what I wrote my dissertation on. It is above and beyond activities and they improve the efficiency of others and the organization. We tend to say things like, morale is high. Or, morale is low. But what's interesting is these things have an interplay. You can have an employee who is super satisfied, but not really motivated. They come to work. It's not too hard. They're happy when they're at work but they're not working real hard. I'm sure all of you know somebody of whom this might be true. Or, you might have somebody who is really driven. Who is a hard, hard worker and they're not committed to the organization. Because it's because of their relationship with their supervisor. So these things, we tend to think about it sort of as morale. People are complicated and this ideas about work and the way people feel about work and the different kinds of attitudes they have are much more complicated than we often give them credit for. So, I used to have a college professor who said, everything is in dynamicc equal librium of everything else. I think that is especially true of work places. I want to go back to the slide where we talked about what makes a healthy organization. Here we are, talking about making people satisfied. Making them committed. Making them motivated. The end goal is to make the organization successful. We want to advance the mission of the organization. So the nice thing -- a true thing happens to be true is positive attitudes lead to positive outcomes. These are byproducts of organizational attitude. The focus isn't about the end-goal being making everybody all of those things. It's making people all of those things with the end goal of making the organization successful in your community. So, we're going to do a little activity that is going to take a couple of minutes. I want you to think about your very, very best employee. If you're not a supervisor, think about a colleague that you just think the world of and is a role model for the way you think people should be at work. I want you to make a list of the traits, skills, characteristics. Once you've made your list, pick the top three characteristics that you think are most valuable and once you get down to those three, share them in the comments box. Take a few minutes, no need to rush. I'll probably check back in about three minutes. So I'm sure most of you are skimming through this list with me and, thank you, Jennifer, for putting some of those up on the slide. What I want you to notice is that -- well, what I want you to think about, when you look at this of things, many of you are reflecting the same ideas. They're hard-working, they're can-do. They help other people. They are creative. They're flexible. They're humble. Are the words that you're seeing on this list, are the words on this list in your job description. Are they in your job posting? So what we tend to do, when we write job descriptions and when we write job postings, is we stick to the technical aspects of the job. Although sometimes you might have a couple of things that elude to these trait, skills and characteristics. If what makes your employees the best and what you want is the best employees who are going to be able to sustain and build the culture that you're trying to build, they have to have these characteristics, right? So, how are you going to attract people with those characteristics if you don't ask for it? If you don't require it, as a component of being a part of the job? So, we don't do this well. We don't do this well. If you look at it, none of these say excellent references. So, I want you to sort of -- one of the take-aways here is to think about your job description. Think about your job posting and make sure these things that are making people the best employees are things you are hiring and looking for because that's how you sustain culture. These are the people who are going to do things -- who -- I don't know what's happened. The way things are done around here, with these folks, will be role modeling -- role modeling is the way you learn culture. These are the folks that are role modeling new behaviors you want new employees to adopt. I don't want you to throw the baby out with the bath water. Technical skills matter. This isn't saying throw out your job description. If the person needs to build a widget to do their job, they need to build the widget. We tend to spend too much time -- we don't spend enough time on the task knowledge -- I'm sorry, I saw the word, knowledge, I got distracted by Jennifer. We don't spend enough time on the other components on what makes someone a good or a great employee. So, let's talk about hiring and retention. So, this is really where the rubber meets the road, in terms of building a healthy organizational culture. If you hire the right people and then you make sure you retain those people, again, this is going to have an impact on the success of your organization. It's going to have an impact on that nebulous concept of morale. Think about your experience with a new employee that doesn't cut it. If you have employees who stay, who are retained, who are not supportive of the culture that you're organization is trying to build. Hiring and retention really, really, really, really matters. One of the things we don't do often is to take the time before we post a job to say, okay, what do we need now? Or organizations are changing and shifting. That big list you put up there, sometimes you want is something that's detail-oriented and an out of the box thinker and sometimes you don't. It depends on the mix of teammates you have. If you are supervisors, in HR, directors, take a step back when there's an opening. This is time. We don't have a lot of it. Because of how important this is, I would encourage you to take the time to really think about who you're hiring and who you're retaining. So now we're going to go back to this. More satisfying employees are more productive employees. The answer -- where we are imperically with this is we just don't know. There is no empirical evidence that absolutely links satisfaction to performance. Shock and awe. But, this is not saying that we should throw out satisfaction as a really, really important thing to strive for. So, what's interesting about satisfaction is that it leads to other things that lead to productivity and output. One of the things that satisfaction leads to is organizational citizenship behairier. It is individual behavior that is discretionary, not directly or explicitly recognized by the formal rewards system and promotes the efficient functioning of the organization. We're going to break that down a little. Maybe, if I can figure out how to click this slide. Okay, we're going to break it down. Organizational citizenship is authentic. It's the way people interact in the moment. Manager can dictate that you do it and you can't think three days in advance, I'm going to go above and beyond. So as you can see, we're looking at the social and psychological environment. This isn't about making widgets faster, this is making it so people can perform their jobs more effectively. Efficient and effective is an important piece and . It is about doing things that have direct impact on people's ability to get the work done and the organization to be effective in a productivity set. So, I just want to sort of ask -- like most human behavior -- like most human behavior, it's complicated. There are positive implications of this and there are negative implications of this. So, we're just doing a very high-level overview. Organizational citizenship behavior -- that's what ocb is. The formal definition is individual behavior that's discretionary and promotes effective functioning of the organization. What's interesting is as we talk about this, what you'll see -- you'll say, oh, I want to require this of my folks. This theory sort of evolved in the 1980s. And as we have sort of progressed, as a culture, as an organizational cultures, this bit of being recognized by the formal rewards system is started to be recognized by the system. So what on earth does this mean? So I'm going to talk about six different types of organizational citizenships. So, the first component is altruism or helping. This is voluntarily helping a colleague. Joe, the new page comes careening around the corner with a cart full of books and the books go flying off everywhere. You're working on your ordering and you can either look up at Joe, who is sprawled out across the floor and say, that's too bad. Or, you can get up and you can help Joe. Helping Joe getting back on his feet quickly, even though you had to stop what you were doing, makes you more efficient. It's being helpful in an above and beyond way. Compliance is about the spirit and the letter of the law. So, this is you get 10 sick days a year and you get until December and you realize you have only used five. You're not sick, do you take those five days? So the spirit of your sick leave is that you take it when you're sick. It's not, the letter of the law says I can do it so I'm going to do it. Sportsmanship is tolerating trivial inconveniences. The coffee maker breaks in the staff lounge. Do you go into your manager's office and spend 20 minutes complaining about how it's broken and you go to the desk and spend 20 minutes complaining to them. Or, do you pop your head into the manager's office and say, hey, the coffee maker's broken and go back to doing whatever you were doing? Courtesy is consulting with others before taking action. If you're going to print pink things in the office copy machine, you should tell other people you are printing on pink paper before the board packets get printed on pink paper. Civic virtue. This is keeping up with matters that effect the organization. If you're in public libraries, you maybe have a program guide or a place on your website where programs happen. If you're in circulation, you don't necessarily need to know what happens. If a patron walks up to the front desk and say, hey, what time is jury time. It's nice for the circulation to say -- making sure your whole staff is keeping with matters that effect the organization. I'm picking out a tomato, random patron comes over to talk about how cranky they are about something that's happening at the library and if you start eating the grapes and say, oh, yeah, everything's terrible. That's not helping the image of the library. Lastly, some of these things make it sound like all you're doing is sort of saying, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. That's not the point. It is being positive and constructive. Whether that's helping people or helping the organization. Voice is another important component. If you are concerned about the direction, a decision, you don't think spending a lot of library resources on a particular program that you're moving toward is a good thing for the community, having a culture where you can go to your supervisor and say, I have some real doubts about this and here's why, is really, really important. So, you can start to see now why you might want to award employees for doing these things or it might be expectations of performance. It's sort of being adapted, especially in service industry. If you have the latitude to get up from the desk and help Joe, who's toppled offer. Another caveat, environments might be different. You might not be able to take on different tasks. I'm going to put unions in a certain box that we're not going to talk about. If you are working at a reference desk and you see that circulation has a huge line and you can help, you are increasing customer satisfaction. You're encouragng your folks to take initiative. You have the added benefit of things like reducing staff turnover, as well as increasing productivity because you don't have someone down at the desk saying there is only four pencils in the storage closet and I'm mad about that. There are a lot of tangible outcomes. Satisfaction, people who are more satisfied tend to engage more often and then that tends to lead to more workplace productivity, efficiency and effectiveness. So, how do we make this happen? We have good things happening. Good things happen to the organization. What do library staff, directors, managers do to help enable this? This, specifically, is what I wrote my dissertation on. Relationships between employees and their direct supervisor and how does that lead to, or not lead to, organizational citizenship in the workplace? The number one determinant is if they feel their supervisor supports them. If you think way back to the slide about the importance of that direct supervisor, if you are a direct supervisor, it is imperative that you think about your relationship with your employees. If you're thinking about becoming a supervisor, it's somethingt that you have to love, it's something you have to enjoy and different skillsets than being a librarian. What to you do? How do we be a supportive supervisor? You model. So, you have to be a helpful and constructive person, as well. Exhibiting genuine interest in employees, what does this mean? Some people think of management as being remote. That is not necessarily or generally perceived as being supportive. You don't have to be -- and perhaps should not be friends with your employees. It's knowing if they have hobbies or children and genuinely caring about them. And folks like to be thanked publicly. Some folks don't. So part of Exhibiting genuine interest is learning how people like to be appreciated. Staff that have received notes and they keep them forever. Getting a written note is really powerful. Considering the goals and values and opinions. Let's say you have an employee that is doing a bang-up job and you want to give them more responsibility. There are two options, design and run the summer reading program or help design technology classes. If you choose and say, here, here's a way to give you more autonomy and more responsibility and you consider they hate programing or hate technology and you have the latitude to give them a choice, give them the choice. People will be -- perceive that as being far more supportive and give back to the organization when they feel the organization has given back to them. And providing regular feedback. Feedback is interesting because we, as managers, tend to fear giving it and tend to assume folks fear getting it. When done correctly, people like to know how they're doing. Being supportive is telling them when they're doing a great job or saying, hey, can you do something a little bit differently? It doesn't mean -- being supportive doesn't mean always saying yes. When you start talking about being supportive, this is often sort of where you end up is, well, does that mean I have to say yes to everything people want? If you need someone to do the technology training, then they do the technology training. Remember, the end goal here is to advance the end mission and success of the organization. One of -- ruth is a library consultant. When I first got my job, I had a number of interesting staffing issues and I was going to have to have some really hard conversations and what she said was, be direct, respectful and courageous and I've tried to carry that with me. In the same way, people also -- like, they don't want to be personal or they don't want to be human with the folks they supervise. Fairness matters. Equity matters in the way people perceive each other and fairness and satisfaction are intricately tied. If you want employees to be satisfied at work, you have to be fair. And sometimes, that means saying no. Okay. So, let me check my slides here, since I want to make sure I give everybody time for questioning. So, I'm not going to read the slides to you, since you can read. And, because I want to make sure we have time to ask questions. So you'll have these slides. These are tips, not just for managers and directors, but for designing your culture. This is higher level. How do you design a culture? You give people the chance to participate. You give people the ability to work together, as a team. I see Jennifer reposted the link. At any rate, this is a higher level, how do you develop that culture? So one thing I do want to spend a couple more minutes on is appropriate staffing. We don't spend a lot of time often thinking about what we need in a given situation when we're hiring. So one of the qualities of employees that are predisposed are pro-social. You want to make sure they are concerned about the rights, feels of others. It jives really well with what libraries do and what libraries want to be. You want people generally in your organization and they're also probably going to be good organizational citizens. This last one, proactive personality. Proactive personality, this isn't proactive, like I'm going to get up from the desk and check the stacks. This is, I believe I can influence my environment. If I don't get a job and reflect on that later, do I say, they didn't like me, there was nothing I can do. Or do you say, okay, what can I do differently? This reflects a personality trait. Some people have the belief that they can change their surroundings. People who believe they can change their surrounding tend to also engage more readily in organizational citizenship. So, how do I get these people? You're scratching your heads going, okay, that's nice. There are ways to design interview questions to elicit some of these characteristics. So you can see, I've sited an article down here about employment interviews. There are ways you can design questions that are open-ended, but specific and help you get out some of these quatties, the traits, knowledge and skills that will help lead to high levels of organizational leadership. We had our beginning of the session definition of healthy organization. These are from a study. The indicators of organizational health, these folks looked at bunch of different things. It is important to the library, but it's also a really good overlap with what happens in an organization with high levels of organizational citizenship behavior. It overlays very nicely here. Okay. We're going to wrap it up. Every presentation needs a cat, I'm sorry to those of you who think that's crazy. A cat burrito, come on. Final talking points. If you're a manager or director, be a good role model. People are watching you all the time and you are the ones who are enforcing and building the culture. Take the time to think about culture. What kind of place do you want to build? What kind of people do you want to bring in? Hiring and rewarding and retaining those staff. Access to training for supervisors. Middle managers really, really, really matter. They matter for the folks you bring in. And lastly, one of the things that comes up over and over again, in terms of developing healthy organization culture is communicating and sharing appreciation and telling people what they do, matters. So, have fun. You should really like being a manager, if you want to be a manager. It's not always easy. I have many more gray hairs. I have often been under my desk. I can get some suggested readings to Jennifer. The leadership challenge, you either lead by example or you don't lead at all. I think that's true. So, I will try and also pull together some readings to share. But have a good time. It's okay to be funny. It's okay to use humor. If you're having fun, the people you're working with are also going to have fun and this was used by one of my staff in our staff development day presentation of his department report. Here's the other thing, I am a tiny potato and I believe in you. This is hard. People are hard. Managing is hard. But it is so rewarding. Nobody knows how to be a manager until they start doing it. There is no new rulebook for this. If you aren't managers and are thinking about becoming managers, be forgiving of your self and the folks that supervise you. Until -- you can do all the reading and research in the world. Until you're actually doing it, you're just trying stuff. We're all going to screw it up and I, the tiny potato, believe in you. Questions? >> Jennifer Peterson: Excellent. Thank you so much, Rachel. I can't tell you how refreshing it is to have fresh ideas around this topic. I think a lot of times, folks get tired of hearing organizational effectiveness. To have your application of your research, as well as fresh research is so refreshing and it's very affirming and helpful for people to take back again. Thank you so much for pulling it together and to a nice, solid hour. Folks are interesting in suggested reading, so I'll definitely post those to the event page after Rachel can send those to me. Other questions. I haven't really seen other specific questions. We were talking about it, here, that you did such a great job of covering it in a really nice, solid way. Some one asks -- she got her Ph.D. from Simmons -- yep, she's typing in here, as well. One of the things that I just -- I know that you emphasize the importance of the manage -- the manager sort of being that instigator to being this shift. Can you just talk a little bit about how people can kind of do that maybe if they're leading from within the organization? Do you have any good advice for folks that maybe are in a situation where they want to help change the culture and they're not in a leadership position? >> Rachel Rubin: I want to address -- a couple of folks are talking about, what do you do with the employees you got? You're not going to walk into an organization and everybody's going to be amazing. So, we'll talk -- two questions. So, I would actually turn to motivational literature in terms of the folks who may be aren't embodying the culture that you want them to embody. And so there's a really great articlearticle called one more time, how to motivate employees. And that's applicable to anyone, at any level. I'll give that to Jennifer, too. Especially if you're working with folks who maybe the organization has changed around them and they're not sure, you know, how they fit anymore or they don't like what they're being asked to do. Sometimes you can work with folks on that and sometimes you can't. But for that, I would encourage you to look at the motivational literature. Leading from any position, the interesting thing about culture is that it's really hard, from the frontlines, if they don't have support from the top. There is nothing -- people ban together naturally, the people who have the same approach to culture ban together. When you have those conversations, who do we want to be as an organization? The pressure will become greater going upwards. It is much -- if you are at the top, get really behind -- if frontline folks are leading a charge toward culture, get behind them and give them resources they need. Help them direct what they're doing in ways that are best for the community and library and for the team. Culture is hard but the small things aren't. So engagng makes your colleagues -- makes everybody's life better. One of the reasons this works is the [Indiscernible] so you do something good for someone. It might not be today or tomorrow or back to you, but the person who received something is going to be feel obligated in some way to give back. Once you start that cycle, it starts to build upon itself so that's one of the ways it works and one of the ways you can help build momement toward that at any level in the organization. >> Jennifer Peterson: Yeah, it's really helpful and it brings to mind -- at WebJunction, we talk about organizations of learning and building that cultural maybe empowering other people within the organization to help tell that story. Maybe it's a peer that's leading a discussion or giving a presentation or hosting a piece at a staff day. I think sometimes it's enlisting those folks within your team to help bring those other folks on board. >> And leaning towards their strengths. If you have great informal leaders, let them run. If you have people really interested in this, use them as people who do research and then present to administration or present to manager. Even in the small library -- I've done this presentation for some libraries where there's five people who work in the whole library. Think about the impact, as a supervisor. Right? So your direct supervisor has a huge impact. That's more powerful in a small organization and the folks on the frontline, all three of them, they can make a lot of change so it's almost easier in a smaller organization than a larger one. >> Jennifer Peterson: There's a question, what if you cannot impact wages? This kind of question of incentive. You can't give them incentive, perhaps through wages. Are there ways to frame that as -- how the whole organization might be shifting? It depends on budget and all of that as well. I don't know if you want to talk about that? >> Rachel Rubin: I would encourage everybody to read the article about motivation. It depends -- right. So satisfaction -- okay. So there's a different ance between motivation and satisfaction. Low wages is a dissatisfier. Raising them doesn't raise them. It lessens their dissatisfaction. What is the end-goal? If the end-goal is to motivate them, there are other things to do. If you want to address their dissatisfaction and their dissatisfaction is wages, education -- this is a pet peeve for me -- we can talk, Kathy. I think we do undervalue and underpay library workers, period. The problem is, we get funding that doesn't really allow us to pay them more so there are other ways to reward them. There are other ways to provide them with motivators that will help ameliorate some of that dissatisfaction. Like, we're not valued typically by the states we're in or whoever is our source of funding so it's not andthing we can address to the degree that our folks deserve. There are other ways. That's another presentation that I do is on motivation. >> Jennifer Peterson: Well, we'll have to invite you back, for sure. [LAUGHTER] excellent. Well, we are at the top of the hour. I want to thank everyone for joining us today and especially Rachel, thank you so much for all of your great work and for putting this into such an excellent presentation. And, we will be sending a note out to all of you, once the recording is made available and all of you will receive a certificate, once -- after -- within a week. And I'll also mention that I'm going to send you -- as you leave the room -- to a survey. Please take a moment to provide feedback. We'll share that with Rachel and it helps us guide our online programing. Rachel, any final comments? >> Rachel Rubin: It was weird to not be able to see you. I'm sorry I couldn't see you and thank you so much. >> Jennifer Peterson: Everyone, have a fantastic day. And thanks again to our captioner, as well. Bye-bye, everyone.